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Voice of America, 11 April 1996 (2 of 2)

From: "Ioannis V. Bousnakis" <ivb19@nfi.com>

Voice of America Directory

CONTENTS

  • [01] THE BALKANS REVISITED BY JOLYON NAEGELE (BIHAC, CROATIA)

  • [02] THE BOSNIA PEACE PLAN: IS IT WORKING?


  • [01] THE BALKANS REVISITED BY JOLYON NAEGELE (BIHAC, CROATIA)

    DATE=4/10/96
    TYPE=REPORTERS NOTEBOOK
    NUMBER=4-09058
    TELEPHONE=619-0932 (EDITOR)
    EDITOR=PHIL HAYNES
    CONTENT=
    // INSERTS & VOICE TRACKS AVAILABLE FROM TAPE LIBRARY
    (EDS: OPT FOR SHORT VERSIONS) //

    CART: THEME (ESTABLISH THEN UNDER)

    HOST: WELCOME TO REPORTER'S NOTEBOOK, A WEEKLY PROGRAM FEATURING REPORTS BY VOA CORRESPONDENTS AROUND THE GLOBE ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES IN THE FIELD. THIS WEEK, WE WILL HEAR FROM FORMER VOA CORRESPONDENT JOLYON NAEGELE, WHO COVERED THE WAR IN THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA IN ITS EARLIEST STAGES AND RECENTLY RETURNED TO THE REGION TO VISIT WITH OLD FRIENDS, EXAMINE THE BATTERED REMAINS OF TOWNS AND VILLAGES AND TOUR THE SCARRED COUNTRYSIDE. HE WILL SHARE IMPRESSIONS FROM HIS TRAVELS THROUGH THE FORMER KRAJINA REGION OF CROATIA, VARIOUS TOWNS AND VILLAGES IN NORTHERN BOSNIA, AND FINALLY TO THE SERB-CONTROLLED TERRITORY KNOWN AS REPUBLIKA SRPSKA.

    CART: THEME (UP FULL AND LOSE UNDER)

    TEXT: TRAVELING TO WESTERN BOSNIA HAS BEEN A TRYING EXPERIENCE EVER SINCE SERB RESIDENTS OF CROATIA'S BORDER REGIONS WITH BOSNIA REBELLED FIVE YEARS AGO AS CROATIA MOVED TOWARD INDEPENDENCE FROM YUGOSLAVIA. FIGHTING IN BOSNIA BROKE OUT FOUR YEARS AGO AND MADE TRAVELING EVEN MORE PRECARIOUS. KRAJINA AND BOSNIAN SERB FORCES ENCIRCLED THE MAINLY MUSLIM BIHAC ENCLAVE. KRAJINA SERB AUTHORITIES USUALLY ALLOWED FOREIGN CORRESPONDENTS TO PASS, BUT ONLY ACCORDING TO A PRESCRIBED ROUTE. THAT ALL ENDED LAST AUGUST WITH THE CROAT ROUT OF KRAJINA SERB FORCES AND THE LIFTING OF THE SIEGE OF BIHAC.

    TODAY THE JOURNEY TO BIHAC, JUST TWO HOURS FROM ZAGREB, IS A DRIVE THROUGH A LANDSCAPE MARRED BY THE MASSIVE DESTRUCTION OF WAR. SOME OF IT DATES BACK TO THE OUTBREAK OF THE FIGHTLNG IN 1991, BUT MUCH OF IT DATES TO CROATIA'S "OPERATION STORM" LAST YEAR, THE FLIGHT OF THE KRAJINA SERBS AND THE BURNING OF THEIR HOMES, BOTH BY THE RETREATING FORCES AND BY THE CONQUERORS.

    THE FIRST SIGN OF MASSIVE PROPERTY DESTRUCTION IS VISLBLE IN KARLOVAC, ESPECIALLY ITS SUBURB OF TURANJ, WHICH STRADDLED THE FRONT LINE BETWEEN CROAT AND SERB FORCES FOR FOUR YEARS. EVERY LAST HOUSE IN TURANJ HAS BEEN DESTROYED - SHELLED, BLOWN UP OR BURNT DOWN.

    HEADING SOUTH, REMARKABLY FEW BUILDINGS APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN SPARED DESTRUCTION. A YEAR AGO MANY HOMES WERE STILL HABITABLE. TODAY THEY ARE LARGELY BURNT OUT SHELLS. BUT HERE AND THERE PEOPLE CAN BE SEEN PREPARING THE GROUND FOR SPRING SOWING OR REPAIRING THEIR HOUSES. THIS AREA, THE COMMUNE OF SLUNJ, HAD A CROAT MAJORITY OF OVER 63 PERCENT, ACCORDING TO THE 1991 CENSUS. CROAT RESIDENTS, DISPLACED BY THE WAR, ARE RETURNING TO REBUILD THEIR HOMES AND LIVES. THE WORST DESTRUCTION APPEARS TO BE SOUTH OF SLUNJ IN THE VILLAGES OF RAKOVICA AND VAGANAC WHERE, AS IN TURANJ, EVERY HOUSE AND CHURCH HAS BEEN DESTROYED. BUT MOST MAJORITY OF HOMES WERE ONLY CONSTRUCTED IN THE LAST 20 YEARS. ALTHOUGH THEY MAY BE WITHOUT ROOFS, WINDOWS OR DOORS, THOSE THAT WERE NOT BLOWN UP BUT RATHER SUFFERED MORTAR SHELL OR FIRE DAMAGE APPEAR TO BE STRUCTURALLY SOUND AND SUITABLE FOR REBUILDING.

    THE ROLLING COUNTRYSIDE OF THIS REGION, KNOWN AS KORDUN, IS FILLED WITH SMALL CORNFIELDS, VIRTUALLY NONE OF WHICH WERE HARVESTED LAST YEAR AS A RESULT OF THE SUDDEN SERB FLIGHT. THE DANGER OF MINES AND LACK OF MANPOWER KEPT THE CORN ON THE STALKS THROUGH THE WINTER. NOW IT JUST ATTRACTS BIRDS.

    THE TURNOFF TO BIHAC, NEAR RAKOVICA, TAKES THE TRAVELER ON A CONSIDERABLY NARROWER, WINDING, ICY ROAD THROUGH A FOREST WHICH SUDDENLY GIVES WAY TO MINE FIELDS, MARKED BY YELLOW TAPE. AT THE BORDER, THE CROATS WAVE ME THROUGH TO THE BOSNIAN SIDE.

    A FEW DAYS LATER I HAD TO MAKE AN UNPLANNED DETOUR THROUGH CROATIA ON MY WAY FROM VELIKA KLADUSA IN THE MUSLIM-CROAT FEDERATION TO BANJA LUKA IN REPUBLIKA SRPSKA, DUE TO A STILL UNSAFE, MINED ROAD.

    TRAVELING THROUGH THE TOWNS OF VOJNIC, VIRGINMOST AND GLINA TO DVOR, I PASSED THROUGH A DE-POPULATED REGION OF THE FORMER KRAJINA, KNOWN AS BANIJA. HEAVY MATERIAL DAMAGE IS VISIBLE AT EVERY STEP. L PICK UP A HITCHHIKER, A DOCTOR WHO HAS RETURNED FROM EXILE AND IS REBUILDLNG HIS DESTROYED HOUSE. HE POINTS OUT A DISUSED FACTORY NEAR BLATUSA, WHICH HE SAYS WAS USED BY THE KRAJINA SERBS AS A MISSILE LAUNCH SITE FOR ATTACKS ON KARLOVAC.

    BANIJA WAS THE ONLY AREA WHERE THE KRAJINA SERBS TRIED TO STAND THEIR GROUND FOR MORE THAN A FEW HOURS AND FIGHT DURING LAST YEAR'S CROATIAN OFFENSIVE. SERBS MADE UP BETWEEN 60 AND 90 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION OF THESE TOWNS BEFORE THE FIGHTING AND ALMOST ALL HAVE FLED. SO FAR, FEW FORMER CROAT RESIDENTS HAVE RETURNED. ON THE MAIN ROAD FROM GLINA TO DVOR, ONE CAN DRIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY FOR HALF AN HOUR WITHOUT SEEING ANOTHER CAR, OTHER THAN POLICE AND MILITARY VEHICLES. THE POLICE MAN SEVERAL CONTROL POINTS ALONG THE ROAD. SIDE ROADS ARE MARKED "NO ENTRY FOR FOREIGNERS."

    THE ROAD WINDS UP A MOUNTAIN PASS AND DOWN THE OTHER SIDE PAST COUNTLESS OLD LOG CABINS THAT WERE SPARED DESTRUCTION. THE NEWER HOUSES THOUGH HAVE ALL BEEN GUTTED. IT WAS OVER THIS PASS AND DOWN THIS (ZIROVAC) VALLEY THAT MOST KRAJINA SERBS, CIVILIANS AND SOLDIERS, FLED LAST YEAR TO THE RELATIVE SAFETY OF REPUBLIKA SRPSKA IN BOSNIA. THE THOUGHT OF WHAT HAPPENED HERE JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO, THE FLEEING SERBS ENCIRCLED AND UNDER ATTACK FROM THE AIR, GIVES ME A VERY UNEASY FEELING AS I DROVE THROUGH THIS FORSAKEN VALLEY. DVOR ON THE CROATIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER ALSO SUFFERED MASSIVE DESTRUCTION LAST YEAR. AT THE BORDER, A CROATIAN GUARD EYES ME WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE DEEP-SEATED SUSPICION -- AN AMERICAN REPORTER DRIVING A CZECH CAR INTO REPUBLIKA SRPSKA THROUGH A LIGHTLY USED CROSSING. HE LETS ME PASS.

    CART: MUSIC BRIDGE

    TEXT: ENTERING BOSNIA AT A NEWLY BUILT FRONTIER CROSSING IN THE MIDDLE OF A MINEFIELD WEST OF BIHAC, THE ROAD WLNDS DOWN INTO THE MUSLIM VILLAGE OF IZACIC. HAVING PASSED THROUGH SO MANY ABANDONED BURNT OUT VILLAGES WITH BLOWN UP CHURCHES ON THE CROATIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER, IT IS ALMOST SURPRISING TO NOTE THAT THIS FIRST BOSN IAN VILLAGE IS FULL OF PEOPLE GOING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS IN A COMMUNITY THAT SUFFERED LITTLE APPARENT DESTRUCTION. EVEN THE MOSQUE AND MINARET APPEAR UNSCATHED. A FEW MINUTES LATER I CROSS A HUGE DITCH THAT STRETCHES ACROSS THE VALLEY. IT IS AN ANTITANK TRAP, BUILT BY THE BOSNIAN ARMY TOGETHER WITH FRENCH PEACEKEEPERS THREE YEARS AGO TO KEEP THE SERBS FROM OVERRUNING THE BIHAC POCKET

    IN BIHAC, NUMEROUS HOUSING BLOCKS HAVE NO GLASS IN THEIR WINDOWS, HAVING BEEN BLOWN OUT DURING REPEATED SHELLING. PLASTIC SHEETING MARKED WITH THE INITIALS OF THE UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES COVER THE WINDOWS AND PROVIDE SOME PROTECTION FROM THE ELEMENTS. TO MY RELLEF, FRIENDS I HAD MADE HERE ON A VISIT DURING THE SERB SIEGE SEVERAL YEARS AGO HAVE SURVIVED THE WAR. BUT WAR CAN AGE PEOPLE, AND I DID NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE ONE FRIEND, HE HAD CHANGED SO, HAVING REGAINED IN PEACETIME THE WEIGHT HE HAD LOST DURING THE SIEGE.

    IN THE MARKET, FRESH PRODUCE, LNCLUDING ORANGES, AND BANANAS ARE FOR SALE. SMALL FAMILY RUN GROCERY STORES HAVE SPRUNG UP ALL OVER TOWN. KIOSKS OFFER SARAJEVO AND ZAGREB NEWSPAPERS, BUT NO LOCAL PAPERS, AS NONE EXIST YET . A DEPARTMENT STORE SELLS BABY CARRIAGES AND CHILDREN'S BICYCLES IN ALL PRICE RANGES. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PHOTO-COPY CENTERS, AN ISLAMIC READING ROOM AND EVEN A FLOWER SHOP, ALL SIGNS OF A RETURN TO NORMALCY. YET THE STREETS ARE TEEMING WITH PEOPLE, INCLUDING LARGE NUMBERS OF MEN OF ALL AGES DRESSED IN MILITARY FATIGUES OF THE BOSNIAN ARMYS FIVE CORPS. POSTERS ADVERTISE TRIPS TO MECCA FOR THE HAJJ, FOR ONE THOUSAND 650 DEUTSCHMARKS, A LOT OF MONEY IN A PLACE WHERE MANY PEOPLE COMPLAIN THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PAID THEIR SALARIES FOR EIGHT MONTHS. PILES OF FIREWOOD ARE STACKED EVERYWHERE OR ARE BEING TRANSPORTED THROUGH TOWN IN HORSE-DRAWN WAGONS. WOOD IS STILL THE MAIN FUEL FOR HEATING AND COOKING, EVEN IN APARTMENT BLOCKS.

    A TEN P-M CURFEW REMAINS IN EFFECT AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER THE LIGHTS GO OUT A HOTEL GENERATOR SOON STARTS UP, PROVIDING JUST ENOUGH LIGHT TO FIND ONE'S WAY TO BED.

    DRIVING NORTH TO CAZIN A FEW DAYS LATER, A SOLDIER FLAGS ME DOWN, I ASSUME FOR A DOCUMENT CHECK, BUT IT TURNS OUT HE JUST WANTS A LIFT. HE IS TALKATIVE BUT THE RIFLE ON HIS LAP IS A BIT UNSETTLING. HE COMPLAINS THAT NEARLY FOUR YEARS OF WAR FAILED TO RESOLVE OR IMPROVE ANYTHING AND THAT IT WAS ALL A TREMENDOUS WASTE.

    CART: MUSIC BRIDGE

    TEXT: ENTERING REPUBLIKA SRPSKA, THE SERB HELD PART OF BOSNIA OVER THE DESTROYED AND PARTIALLY REBUILT BRIDGE ACROSS THE UNA RIVER BETWEEN DVOR IN CROATIA AND BOSANSKI NOVI IN BOSNIA, ONE LEAVES BEHIND A DEPOPULATED AREA WHERE FEW HOMES WERE LEFT UNDAMAGED BY LAST YEAR'S FIGHTING.

    BOSANSKI NOVI OR AS THE SERBS HAVE RENAMED IT, NOVI GRAD, SUFFERED CONSIDERABLY LESS MATERIAL DAMAGE. LIKE MOST COMMUNITIES IN THIS PART OF REPUBLIKA SRPSKA IT IS ANYTHING BUT UNDERPOPULATED. 280-THOUSAND REFUGEES ARE BEING SHELTERED IN THE WESTERN REGION OF REPUBLIKA SRPSKA. SIXTY- THOUSAND OF THEM ARE FROM THE FORMER KRAJINA AND A FURTHER 120 THOUSAND FROM WESTERN BOSNIAN DISTRICTS TAKEN LAST YEAR BY CROATIAN AND MOSTLY MUSLIM BOSNIAN GOVERNMENT FORCES.

    OPPOSITE THE DAYTON CAFE BAR, A SMALL HOUSE WITH BOARDED UP WINDOWS SERVES AS A BORDER CONTROL POST YOUNG, GOOD-NATURED SERB POLICE OFFICERS ASK FOR MY REPUBLIKA SRPSKA JOURNALIST ACCREDITATION. I TELL THEM I WILL PICK IT UP IN BANJA LUKA. THEY LOOK ASKANCE AND GO INTO THE BOARDED UP HOUSE. VARIATIONS OF THIS CONVERSATION WERE REPEATED OVER THE NIEXT 40 MINUTES UNTIL THE BOSNIAN SERB GUARDS FINALLY RELENT. "DRIVE STRAIGHT TO BANJA LUKA AND GO TO THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS CENTER FOR YOUR ACCREDITATION", THEY SAY, AS THEY GAVE ME BACK MY PASSPORT AND I-FOR PRESS CARD AND LIFTED THE BARRIER ACROSS THE ROAD, ALLOWING ME TO ENTER REPUBLIKA SRPSKA.

    EXCEPT FOR THE MILITARY BASE IN THE CENTER OF TOWN, A SENSE OF NORMALCY PREVAILS HERE THAT IS STILL LARGELY ABSENT ACROSS THE RIVER IN CROATIA'S DEPOPULATED BORDERLANDS.

    BUT AS I HEAD DOWN THE MAIN ROAD TO PRIJEDOR AND BANJA LUKA, I NOTICE NUMEROUS HOUSES AND EVEN WHOLE VILLGES, INHABITED BY MUSLIMS UNTIL 1992, THAT HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. THE RUINS HAVE BEEN PICKED CLEAN WITH NOTHING LEFT BUT THE OUTSIDE WALLS, A WHITE CROSS PAINTED ON EACH BUILDING.

    IN BANJA LUKA, OFFICIALS AT THE PRESS CENTER IN THE HOUSE OF THE ARMY TELL ME I NEED NO SPECIAL ACCREDITATION AFTER ALL, THAT MY I-FOR CARD IS ENOUGH.

    THE WAR MAY BE OVER BUT THE EFFECTS OF THE JUST LIFTED EMBARGO AGAINST REPUBLIKA SRPSKA CAN STILL BE FELT IN VARIOUS WAYS. THE SHOPS HAVE FAR LESS TO OFFER THAN IN THE MUSLIM-CROATIAN FEDERATION, MOST EATERIES CLOSE BY DUSK AND STREET LAMPS ARE NOT TURNED ON AT NIG> THE RADIATOR IN MY HOTEL ROOM IS STONE COLD, THERE IS NO HOT WATER AND THE ONLY LIGHT COMES FROM A SINGLE FUNCTIONING, BARE BULB.

    IN THE HOTEL RESTAURANT, A DETACHMENT OF NEWLY ARRLVED UNARMED DUTCH MEMBERS OF THE U-N INTERNATIONAL POLICE TASK FORCE DINE AT ONE TABLE WHILE SEVERAL OTHER TABLES ARE OCCUPIED BY RATHER FEROCIOUS LOOKING, HEAVILY-ARMED MEMBERS OF A SERB PARAMILITARY UNIT FROM PALE, APPARENTLY ACCOMPANYING A SENIOR OFFICIAL FROM THE CAPITAL OF REPUBLIKA SRPSKA.

    ALTHOUGH MOST CROATS AND MUSLIMS FLED OR WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE AREA DURING THE WAR, A U-N-H-C-R OFFICIAL TELLS ME THAT AN ESTIMATED 25 THOUSAND NON SERBS STILL LIVE IN THE BANJA LUKA REGION (INCLUDING PRIJEDOR AND PRNJAVOR). SOME WERE FORCED LAST YEAR TO MOVE OUT OF THEIR HOMES BUT 34 FAMILIES ARE FIGHTING THE EVICTION CASES IN COURT -- AND WINNING.

    EARLIER IN THE WAR THE SERBS BLEW UP THE CITY'S MOSQUE AND LEVELED THE SITE. BUT THE MODERN ROMAN CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL IS FUNCTIONING AND CROWDED WITH WORSHIPPERS FOR SUNDAY MASS. AN ENERGETIC BISHOP DELIVERS A SERMON ABOUT THE NEED FOR LIVING IN HARMONY WITH ONE'S NEIGHBORS REGARDLESS OF ETHNIC ORIGIN, ABOUT PRAYING FOR FORGIVENESS FOR THE SERBS, AND ABOUT THE LONGING OF CROAT EXILES FROM BANJA LUKA NOW IN CROATIA TO BE ABLE TO RETURN.

    LATER I PICK UP A HITCHHIKER - A REFUGEE SOLDIER FROM SANSKI MOST. HE EXPRESSES CONCERN ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S LONG TERM INTENTIONS IN BOSNIA AND WONDERS ALOUD WHEN FOREIGN INVESTMENT WILL START. "THE SERBS ARE NOT A BAD PEOPLE," HE INSISTS.

    THIS VIEW IS REPEATED THE FOLLOWING DAY BY ANOTHER HITCHHIKING SOLDIER. GORAN, WHO HAVING SUFFERED A LEG INJURY DURING THE WAR IS ON HIS WAY TO A REHABILITATION CENTER FOR TREATMENT. GORAN SAYS HE IS RELIEVED THE FIGHTING HAS STOPPED AND IS CONVINCED THAT PEACE WILL LAST. BUT HE SAYS REINTEGRATION OF MUSLIMS AND CROATS WITH SERBS WILL HAVE TO WAIT. IN GORAN'S WORDS, "IT WILL TAKE TIME - I WAS SHOT IN THE LEG AND I LOST MY BROTHER IN THE WAR, I AM NOT YET READY TO HAVE MY ENEMY AS MY NEIGHBOR."

    MUSIC BRIDGE

    DRIVING FROM BANJA LUKA TOWARD DOBOJ, I PASS SEVERAL HORSE DRAWN CARAVANS OF SARAJEVO SERBS PLODDING NORTHWESTWARDS. THE ROADS ARE IN SHOCKING CONDITION IN SOME PLACES; BLOWN UP, WASHED OUT OR SIMPLY FULL OF ICE ENCRUSTED POT HOLES. ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF DOBOJ, I REACH A SERB CHECKPOINT AND THEN DRLVE THROUGH A CHASM. THIS IS THE FOUR- KILOMETER WIDE ZONE OF SEPARATION BETWEEN REPUBLIKA SRPSKA AND THE MUSLIM CROAT FEDERATION OF BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA. SEVERAL TIMES I ROUND A BEND TO SEE A COLUMN OF SWEDISH I-FOR TANKS AND ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS, OCCUPYING MOST OF THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD AND HEADING TOWARD ME AT HIGH SPEED. JUST OFF TO THE ROAD ON MY RIGHT ARE MINEFIELDS. MIRACULOUSLY WE PASS WITHOUT INCIDENT. BEYOND THE CHASM, THE ROAD STRAIGHTENS OUT, TRAFFIC IS SLOWED TO A CRAWL THROUGH FURTHER MINEFIELDS AND AN IFOR CHECKPOINT ON THE INTER-ENTITY BOUNDARY LINE. JUST BEYOND IS A BOSNIAN GOVERNMENT CHECKPOINT.

    I HEAD ON TOWARD TUZLA, IMPRESSED WITH THE LARGE NUMBER OF IFOR VEHICLES ON THE ROAD, BOTH U-S AND SWEDISH. MATERIAL DAMAGE HERE HAS BEEN LIGHT BUT THE DEPUTY MAYOR, JASMIN IMAMOVIC, LATER TELLS ME OF THE SUFFERING PEOPLE WENT THROUGH: AS HE PUTS IT, NO ONE WHO WAS NOT HERE 24 HOURS A DAY FOR THE THREE AND A HALF YEARS OF THE WAR CAN BEGIN TO IMAGINE WHAT WE WENT THROUGH. BUT HE EXPRESSES HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL COME TO THEIR SENSES IN TIME FOR ELECTIONS LATER THIS YEAR, VOTE RESPONSIBLY AND SHUN NATIONALIST PARTIES.

    THE NEXT DAY I HEAD OUT OF THE FEDERATION TO REPUBLIKA SRPSKA VISITING BRCKO AND BIJELJINA. I PICK UP MORE HITCHHIKERS, THIS TIME A REFUGEE SERB POLICEMAN FROM DRVAR IN WESTERN BOSNIA AND LATER A COUPLE OF SERB TEENAGERS FROM ILIJAS NEAR SARAJEVO. NONE BELIEVE THEY WILL SEE THEIR HOMETOWNS FOR A LONG TIME TO COME -- IF EVER.

    BRCKO STRADDLING THE NARROW CORRIDOR LINKING THE TWO MAIN PARTS OF REPUBLIKA SRPSKA SUFFERED HEAVY DAMAGE AS DID THE ROADS IN THE AREA, WHICH ARE FULL OF TREMENDOUS SHELL HOLES THAT IN PLACES MUST BE CIRCUMVENTED AT A SNAIL'S PACE. BIJEUINA BEING FURTHER FROM THE FRONT, SUFFERED LESS DAMAGE THAN BRCKO, THOUGH THE MOSQUE HERE AS IN BANJA LUKA WAS BLOWN UP AND THE SITE LEVELED. THE MAYOR CLAIMS THE MUSLIMS USED THE MOSQUE AS AN AMMUNITION DEPOT AT THE START OF THE WAR. HE SAYS NO ONE KNOWS WHICH SIDE SET OFF THE EXPLOSION. MAYOR DRAGOMIR LJUBOJEVIC BOMBARDS ME WITH QUESTIONS OF WHAT LIFE IS LIKE ON THE OTHER SIDE - IN THE MUSLIM CROAT FEDERATION. BUT HE SEES THE WAR AS HAVING BEEN NECESSARY. IN HIS WORDS, IF THERE HAD BEEN NO WAR, WE WOULD NOT BE SITTING HERE - THE MUSLIMS WOULD BE IN CHARGE.

    A FEW DAYS LATER, WHEN I GOT BACK TO PRAGUE AFTER MY BOSNIAN ODYSSEY A MECHANIC LOOKED AT MY CAR'S FRONT TIRES AND WORN OUT SHOCK ABSORBERS AND ASKED IN AMAZEMENT, "WHERE IN HELL HAVE YOU BEEN DRIVLNG?" (SIGNED)

    CART: ESTABLISH THEME AND UNDER

    HOST: YOU HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO REPORTER'S NOTEBOOK. THIS WEEK, WE HEARD A SERIES OF SPECIAL REPORTS FROM FORMER VOA CORRESPONDENT JOLYON NAEGELE, WHO SHARED SOME IMPRESSIONS FROM HIS RECENT RETURN VISIT TO THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, WHICH HE COVERED DURING THE EARLIEST STAGES OF THE FOUR-YEAR CIVIL WAR. OUR THANKS TO JOLYON FOR HIS VIVID RECOLLECTIONS FROM HIS TRAVELS THROUGH CROATIA AND BOSNIA.

    CART: THEME (ESTABLISH AND FADE UNDER)

    HOST: REPORTER'S NOTEBOOK WAS PRODUCED BY ___________AND DIRECTED BY_____________. I'M ___________, INVITING YOU TO JOIN US THIS SAME TIME NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF REPORTER'S NOTEBOOK.

    TAPE: SPOTLIGHT PROMO

    CART: THEME (UP FOR FILL)

    NEB/JN/PCH
    11-Apr-96 8:14 AM EDT (1214 UTC)
    NNNN
    Source: Voice of America


    [02] THE BOSNIA PEACE PLAN: IS IT WORKING?

    DATE=APRIL 13, 1996
    TYPE=ON THE LINE
    NUMBER=1-00417
    EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037
    CONTENT=

    THEME: UP, HOLD UNDER AND FADE

    ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES. THIS WEEK, "THE BOSNIA PEACE PLAN: IS IT WORKING?" HERE IS YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY.

    HOST: HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE.

    THE WAR IN BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA HAS TAKEN OVER TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND LIVES AND PRODUCED THE WORST ATROCITIES IN EUROPE SINCE THE SECOND WORLD WAR. LAST NOVEMBER, IN DAYTON, OHIO, A PEACE AGREEMENT WAS REACHED AMONG THE WARRING MUSLIM, SERB AND CROAT FACTIONS. THE ACCORD CALLS FOR A NEW CONSTITUTION FOR BOSNIA THAT WOULD GUARANTEE PROTECTION OF BASIC RIGHTS. THE AGREEMENT ALSO REQUIRES ALL PARTIES TO COOPERATE IN THE PROSECUTION OF WAR CRIMINALS, AND CALLS FOR ELECTIONS THIS SUMMER. NATO HAS DEPLOYED A FORCE OF SIXTY-THOUSAND TROOPS, INCLUDING TWENTY-THOUSAND AMERICANS, TO ENFORCE THE AGREEMENT. A MEETING OF NATIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE PLEDGED SUPPORT FOR BOSNIA'S RECONSTRUCTION IS TAKING PLACE THIS WEEKEND IN BRUSSELS.

    JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS THE PEACE PLAN IN BOSNIA IS ROBERT GALLUCCI, AMBASSADOR AT LARGE AT THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT.

    SINCE THE DAYTON ACCORDS WERE REACHED LAST YEAR, HOW WOULD YOU ASSESS THE PROGRESS IN IMPLEMENTING THOSE ACCORDS?

    GALLUCCI: I THINK THE PLACE WHERE ONE BEGINS IS WITH THAT ACTIVITY THAT TOOK EVERYBODY'S TIME AND ATTENTION INITIALLY, AND THAT WAS THE MILITARY DEPLOYMENT. AND THAT WENT OFF EXCEEDINGLY WELL; BETTER THAN ANYBODY COULD HAVE HOPED. VERY PROFESSIONAL, ON TIME, AND THEY, THAT'S TO SAY, I-FOR [INTERNATIONAL IMPLEMENTATION FORCE], ESSENTIALLY ACCOMPLISHED JUST EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ACCOMPLISH ON SCHEDULE, AND THAT IS TO SEPARATE THE WARRING PARTIES, DEPLOY ON THE LINE OF CONFRONTATION AND THEN, ULTIMATELY, TO DEPLOY ALONG, AND CLEAR THE AREA THAT WOULD SEPARATE THE TWO ENTITIES, AND THEN ACTUALLY TO BEGIN OPERATIONS THROUGHOUT BOSNIA. SO, I-FOR HAS DONE AN EXCEPTIONAL JOB AND I THINK EVERYBODY IS WELL PLEASED WITH THAT ACTIVITY, LARGELY CONDUCTED BY NATO FORCES BUT ALSO OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL. HAVING SAID THAT, THEN WE GO TO THE OTHER ACTIVITY -- IT'S USUALLY DIVIDED BETWEEN THE MILITARY AND THE CIVILIAN -- AND WE LOOK AT THE CIVILIAN SITUATION. AND I THINK, SOMEWHAT UNFAIRLY, THERE'S A TENDENCY TO SAY THAT THIS HAS NOT GONE AS SMOOTHLY. BUT, IN POINT OF FACT ...

    HOST: WHY DO YOU SUPPOSE PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT?

    GALLUCCI: I THINK, IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, IT'S NATURAL TO COMPARE THE MILITARY ACTIVITY WITH THE CIVILIAN ACTIVITY. THAT'S NOT A SURPRISE TO ANY OF US THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK AND SEE HOW WELL THE CIVILIANS WOULD GET ON WITH THEIR TASKS. I USED THE WORD "UNFAIRLY" A MOMENT AGO, AND I THINK IT'S UNFAIR BECAUSE THE TASK IS QUITE DIFFERENT. I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT'S EASIER THAN WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A DANGEROUS TASK IF NOT DONE AS WELL AS I-FOR DID IT -- THAT THE MILITARY ACCOMPLISHED -- BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A DIFFERENT TASK THAT THE CIVILIANS HAVE. AND CIVILIANS ARE ALSO NOT AN ORGANIZED UNIT. THEY'RE NOT A MILITARY UNIT; THEY DON'T HAVE A SINGLE COMMANDER. THERE IS A HIGH REPRESENTATIVE, CARL BILDT WHO REPRESENTS THE COUNTRIES THAT FORM THE LONDON CONFERENCE. AND THESE COUNTRIES ARE THOSE WHO ARE THE PRINCIPLE DONORS IN THE BOSNIAN CONTEXT. AND CARL BILDT HAS MORE RESPONSIBILITY THAN ANY OTHER SINGLE INDIVIDUAL FOR CIVILIAN IMPLEMENTATION. BUT HE IS NOT A PERSON WHO IS THE COMMANDER OF ALL THE NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS OR EVEN THE GOVERNMENT ACTIVITIES ON THE GROUND. HE COORDINATES, AND HE'S DONE, I THINK, AN EXCELLENT JOB OF THAT COORDINATION. BUT STILL, IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF ACTIVITY THAN RUNNING A MILITARY OPERATION.

    HOST: MAYBE WE COULD SAY THAT SOME SOURCE OF THAT DISAPPOINTMENT STEMS FROM THE FACT THAT THE MAGNITUDE OF THE TASK WAS UNDERESTIMATED.

    GALLUCCI: IF I WERE FRAMING IT, I WOULD SAY THE MAGNITUDE OF THE TASK WAS LARGE. I THINK MANY OF US LOOKING AT WHAT HAD TO BE DONE -- AND MAYBE IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA AT THIS POINT IF I TICKED OFF SOME OF THE ELEMENTS OF CIVILIAN IMPLEMENTATION. FIRST THING THAT EVERYBODY WAS AWARE OF, IS THAT LESS THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN BOSNIA BEFORE THE WAR BEGAN ARE NOW LIVING WHERE THEY WERE BEFORE. SO THAT MEANS ABOUT HALF THE POPULATION IS EITHER DISPLACED WITHIN BOSNIA OR IS OVERSEAS IN A REFUGEE STATUS. SO THE FIRST THING IS, PEOPLE ARE NOT WHERE THEY WERE BEFORE. SECOND POINT TO MAKE IS THAT SOMETHING CLOSE TO HALF THE HOUSING STOCK HAS BEEN DESTROYED IN THE WAR. YOU PUT THESE TWO THINGS TOGETHER -- AN ENORMOUS, DISPLACED POPULATION AND THE HOUSING NOT THERE -- AND YOU RECOGNIZE YOU HAVE A HUMANITARIAN DISASTER IN THE MAKING, IF THAT IS NOT MANAGED CORRECTLY. SO, FIRST YOU HAVE THE REFUGEE-DISPLACED PERSONS PROBLEM TO BE MANAGED. AFTER THAT, I THINK YOU NEXT LOOK AT THE RECONSTRUCTION PROBLEM. WE ARE AT A PHASE NOW WHERE WE'RE NO LONGER TRYING TO PROVIDE HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE, WHICH THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD -- PARTICULARLY IN EUROPE -- CONFRONTED, I THINK PRETTY SUCCESSFULLY, OVER THE DIFFICULT WAR YEARS AND PROVIDING EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE.

    HOST: IT'S A POINT THAT'S SOMETIMES FORGOTTEN. I KNOW THE U-N HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES STATED THAT, OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS, THEY SUPPLIED ONE MILLION TONS OF FOOD FOR BOSNIA, BUT THAT THAT IS STARTING NOW TO BE REDUCED IN TERMS OF THE FLOW. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THOSE NEEDS ARE BEING MET IN OTHER WAYS NOW?

    GALLUCCI: IF THE OVERALL POINT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IS: WHAT IS THE CIVILIAN TASK AND WHY IS IT SUCH A CHALLENGE? AND THE FIRST POINT IS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE ARE IN A STATE OF FLUX, [AND] ARE MOVING AND DON'T HAVE PROPER HOUSING. AND THE SECOND POINT IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING NOW THAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT [FROM] WHAT WE WERE DOING IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WE'RE NOW TRYING NOT TO GIVE PEOPLE FOOD; WE'RE TRYING TO HELP AGRICULTURE. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GIVE THEM WATER: WE'RE TRYING TO HELP CREATE THE NECESSARY UTILITIES. WE NOW HAVE MOVED INTO A PHASE OF ACTUAL PROGRAMS TO ALLOW THE PEOPLE OF BOSNIA TO "BOOTSTRAP," AS WE MIGHT SAY; TO GET THEMSELVES UP AND RUNNING. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO RAN A VERY SUCCESSFUL ECONOMY BEFORE AND CAN DO IT AGAIN, IF THEY'RE GIVEN THE ASSISTANCE TO DO IT. SO THE SECOND POINT IS THE RECONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY.

    HOST: AND WHICH OF THESE THINGS ARE SPECIFICALLY CALLED FOR IN THE CIVILIAN IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BOSNIAN ACCORD?

    GALLUCCI: WELL, IF YOU TURN BACK TO THE DAYTON PROCESS -- THE ELEMENTS OF THE CIVILIAN IMPLEMENTATION -- VIRTUALLY EVERY ONE OF THEM IS ANTICIPATED IN THE DAYTON ACCORDS. THE REFUGEE RETURN AND DISPLACED PEOPLE THAT MRS. OGATA AND THE U-N-H-C-R [UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES] WILL PLAY THAT ROLE AS ANTICIPATED. THAT THERE WOULD BE A RECONSTRUCTION EFFORT LED LARGELY BY THE WORLD BANK AND THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY IS ANTICIPATED. THAT THERE WOULD BE AN INTERNATIONAL POLICE TASK FORCE IS ANTICIPATED -- WITH ITS OWN ANNEX. THAT THERE'D BE A WHOLE -- AND THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT -- NEW POLITICAL STRUCTURE. AFTER ALL, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE HERE IS NOT ONLY AN ECONOMIC SITUATION THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES, BUT A NEW POLITICAL SITUATION SO THAT THE COUNTRY DOES NOT FALL BACK INTO WAR. AND THE AGREEMENT, THE DAYTON ACCORDS, PROVIDE FOR A CONSTITUTION THAT CREATES A NEW COUNTRY OF TWO ENTITIES: ONE ENTITY BEING THE FEDERATION OF CROATS AND MUSLIMS, THE OTHER ENTITY BEING THE REPUBLIC OF SRPSKA. AND THE CONSTITUTION IS FOR BOTH THESE ENTITIES SEPARATELY AND THEN AS A NATION AS A WHOLE. FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, THERE HAS TO BE ELECTIONS. AND AS THE DAYTON ACCORDS PROVIDE, THESE ELECTIONS HAVE TO TAKE PLACE WITHIN A CERTAIN TIME FRAME, THAT IS BETWEEN JUNE AND SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR. AND THEY'RE SCHEDULED FOR AUGUST; EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IF ALL THIS IS GOING TO WORK.

    HOST: AND EXTREMELY AMBITIOUS. WE MIGHT ASK YOU NEXT: HAS THE MISSION CREPT, BECAUSE PEOPLE TALKED FROM THE BEGINNING ABOUT THE DANGER OF MISSION-CREEP, IN TERMS OF WHAT THE I-FOR, THE IMPLEMENTATION FORCE, WOULD DO? AND IT SEEMS THAT THE MORE THE MAGNITUDE OF THE CIVILIAN TASK AHEAD BECOMES APPARENT, THE MORE INVOLVED THE MILITARY MUST BECOME, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE RECONSTRUCTION OF ROADS, BRIDGES, TUNNELS AND SO FORTH SO REFUGEES CAN RETURN, THAT PEOPLE CAN GET TO POLLS TO VOTE AND THIS KIND OF THING.

    GALLUCCI: I WOULD SAY THAT THE I-FOR COMMANDER HAS CROSSED THE LINE INTO BRILLIANT, IN TERMS OF THE EXECUTION OF HIS MISSION. IT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, BECAUSE THE QUESTION AS YOU PUT IT, IS HOW IT IS OFTEN PUT TO HIM: ARE YOU GOING TO ALLOW YOUR MISSION STATEMENT, IN ITS EXECUTION, TO CREEP? AND I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT IS NO. HE HAS PROTECTED HIS TROOPS. ON THE OTHER HAND, HE HAS SHOWN CREATIVITY AND FLEXIBILITY ON THE GROUND WHEN HE'S HAD TO. WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE SUBURBS OF SARAJEVO WHEN, WHAT WE BELIEVE HAPPENED: THE SERBS IN THE SUBURBS WERE PUT UNDER PRESSURE FROM THE PALE SERB AUTHORITIES TO LEAVE. I THINK THE I-FOR COMMANDER WAS VERY CREATIVE AND FLEXIBLE IN DEALING WITH THAT SO THAT SITUATION, WHILE NOT A GOOD ONE, WAS PREVENTED FROM BECOMING A VERY BAD ONE. HE HAS WORKED WELL WITH CIVILIAN AUTHORITIES, BOTH THE ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE, THE O-S-C-E, ON THE GROUND IN THE PERSON OF AMBASSADOR ROBERT FROWICK, AS WELL AS WITH CARL BILDT. SO, YES, THEY ARE DOING SOME VERY HELPFUL THINGS TO CIVILIAN IMPLEMENTATION IN ADDITION TO CREATING THAT STRICT REQUIREMENT THEY MUST CREATE WHICH IS A SECURE ENVIRONMENT. THEY ARE DOING ADDITIONAL THINGS, I THINK, WITHOUT GETTING INTO AN AREA THAT WE WOULD CALL MISSION-CREEP, THAT PUTS HIS FORCES AT RISK. SO, I THINK THAT HE'S DONE EXCEEDINGLY WELL WITH THAT.

    HOST: WHAT ABOUT THE POLITICAL REALITIES ON THE GROUND BEFORE WE CAN REACH WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AS A NEW CONSTITUTIONAL ARRANGEMENT WITH THESE TWO ENTITIES IN A UNITARY STATE? WHAT TOOK PLACE IN SARAJEVO WAS NOT VERY ENCOURAGING IN TERMS OF THE PRESSURE THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED BEING BROUGHT ON THE SERBS TO MOVE THEM OUT. NOR IN FACT, ON THE PART OF THE MUSLIM GOVERNMENT OF SARAJEVO, WHICH FILLED ALL BUT TWO POSITIONS IN THAT GOVERNMENT WITH MUSLIMS, LEADING TO THE RESIGNATION OF THE MAYOR, WHO DESCRIBED THAT AS POLITICAL SUICIDE FOR THE CITY. THEN YOU HAVE THE TENSIONS WITHIN THE CROAT-MUSLIM FEDERATION THAT -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER A BAND-AID HAS BEEN PUT OVER THAT, OR WHETHER IT'S BEING INTEGRATED NOW INTO A FUNCTIONING ENTITY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN POLITICAL TERMS?

    GALLUCCI: I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US TO REMEMBER WHAT THESE PEOPLE WENT THROUGH OVER THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS. AND TO ASK THEM TO FORGET ABOUT THAT NOW THAT THEIR LEADERS HAVE GONE TO DAYTON, OHIO, AND INITIALED A PIECE OF PAPER, AND THEN GONE TO PARIS TO SIGN IT, AND COME BACK AND FORGET ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THEIR HOMES AND THEIR BROTHERS, SISTERS, HUSBANDS, CHILDREN, IS UNREASONABLE AND ABSURD. IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG PERIOD OF TIME TO ACHIEVE WHAT ANYONE WOULD CALL RECONCILIATION.

    HOST: OR IF, INDEED, IS THERE NOT A VERY STRONG DANGER THAT, AS THREE DIFFERENT AREAS OF BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA BECOME, SORT OF, ETHNICALLY HOMOGENEOUS, THAT WE WILL HAVE A DE FACTO PARTITION THAT WILL TRANSFORM INTO A POLITICAL AND LEGAL PARTITION?

    GALLUCCI: LET'S REEL US BACK JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THE CONFLICT THAT TOOK PLACE, IN WHICH YOU HAD NOT ONLY MUSLIMS AGAINST SERBS, AS YOU POINTED OUT, BUT MUSLIMS AGAINST CROATS AND CROATS AGAINST SERBS. I DESCRIBED A MOMENT AGO A CONSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE THAT WOULD HAVE A FEDERATION OF CROAT AND MUSLIM. THAT HAS TO BE MADE TO WORK IF THE OVERALL CONSTITUTION THAT PROVIDES FOR TWO ENTITIES IS GOING TO WORK. SO THAT'S THE FIRST POINT. SECOND POINT IS: IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT HISTORY AND HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS FOR THE PEOPLE OF BOSNIA, OUR EXPECTATIONS NOW ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN SHOULD BE REASONABLE. AND I THINK IF ANYBODY EXPECTED THESE PEOPLE RIGHT AWAY TO LIVE IN HARMONY -- ONE WITH ANOTHER AS THOUGH THAT CONFLICT HADN'T TAKEN PLACE -- THEY WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION OVER THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS. THIS IS GOING TO TAKE TIME. IN ADDITION TO TIME, IT'S GOING TO TAKE, I THINK, THE INVESTMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. I MEAN THAT POLITICALLY, AS WELL AS FINANCIALLY. WE CAN'T DO IT FOR THEM, BUT I THINK SOMETHING LIKE THE DONORS' CONFERENCE, WHICH IS TAKING PLACE, INDEED, EVEN AS WE SPEAK. THIS IS EXCEEDINGLY IMPORTANT TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE PEOPLE OF BOSNIA THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS PREPARED TO INVEST IN THEIR FUTURE.

    HOST: AND WHAT ARE THE OBJECTIVES THERE? WHAT IS THIS PARTICULAR BRUSSELS CONFERENCE SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE?

    GALLUCCI: I THINK THE OVERRIDING OBJECTIVE OF THAT CONFERENCE IS TO GO BACK TO THE QUESTION YOU FRAMED PRIOR TO THIS ONE, WHICH IS: WHAT CAN WE EXPECT POLITICALLY IN BOSNIA? THE OBJECTIVE OF THE DONORS' CONFERENCE IS TO HELP CREATE AN ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH BOSNIA, AS A NATION, CAN SURVIVE. TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE A STAKE IN THAT SURVIVAL SO THEY WILL HAVE AN INCENTIVE FOR RECONCILIATION WHICH IS GOING TO BE, ON THE BEST OF DAYS, A VERY DIFFICULT THING FOR THEM TO PULL OFF. WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY CAN DO IN BRUSSELS TODAY IS TO PROVIDE THAT ECONOMIC CONTEXT. I-FOR HAS PROVIDED THE SECURITY CONTEXT. WE ALSO CAN HELP POLITICALLY BY PROVIDING, AT TIMES, PRESSURE ON POLITICAL PLAYERS TO PROVIDE AN OPEN POLITICAL PROCESS FOR THE ELECTIONS, TO CONTINUE TO HAVE PRESIDENTS TUJMAN AND MILOSEVIC PLAY THE ROLES OF MIDWIFE TO THE CREATION OF THIS COUNTRY. BECAUSE WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AS A POSSIBLE OUTCOME, IS INDEED A POSSIBLE OUTCOME, AND THAT IS PARTITION. EVERYBODY HAS WORKED VERY HARD TO AVOID THAT, TO CREATE A SITUATION IN WHICH AT LEAST THERE'S A REASONABLE HOPE THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN PUT A COUNTRY TOGETHER THAT WILL BE ECONOMICALLY AND POLITICALLY VIABLE. IT WILL NOT BE EASY. THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO PLAY A ROLE. BUT THE FINAL POINT ON THIS POINT IS THAT THE ONLY WAY IT WILL HAPPEN IS IF THE PEOPLE OF BOSNIA WANT IT TO HAPPEN. THE LIMIT TO WHAT A DONORS' CONFERENCE CAN DO IS A LIMIT TO WHAT AMERICANS OR EUROPEANS CAN DO.

    HOST: BUT BOSNIA HAS BEEN WELCOMED NOW AS A NEW MEMBER OF THE WORLD BANK. THIS CONFERENCE IS TAKING PLACE. WHAT ARE THE OBJECTIVES OF THE AID? I MEAN, YOU DESCRIBED THE ENORMOUS DEVASTATION OF THE HOUSING STOCK, THE NUMBER OF REFUGEES AND SO FORTH. IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE A TREMENDOUS INVESTMENT, ISN'T IT?

    GALLUCCI: YES, THE WORLD BANK SOME TIME AGO DID A STUDY THAT ESTIMATED THAT OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS OR SO ABOUT FIVE-POINT-TWO BILLION DOLLARS WILL BE REQUIRED. AND THEY ESTIMATED THAT THE INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, PARTICULARLY THE WORLD BANK AND THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND, MIGHT PROVIDE ABOUT TWO BILLION DOLLARS, AND, THEREFORE, LEAVING ABOUT THREE-POINT-TWO BILLION DOLLARS FOR BILATERAL CONTRIBUTIONS OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS OR SO.

    HOST: SPEAKING OF WHICH, WHAT HAS THE UNITED STATES PLEDGED IN TERMS OF RECONSTRUCTION AID? WHAT'S THE STATUS?

    GALLUCCI: PRESIDENT CLINTON SAID [IN] PARIS THAT THE UNITED STATES, SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS, OF COURSE, WOULD COMMIT TO ABOUT SIX HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN ASSISTANCE FOR RECONSTRUCTION OVER THE NEXT THREE OR SO YEARS. WE THIS YEAR, AT AN EARLIER DONOR'S CONFERENCE -- ACTUALLY AT THE END OF LAST YEAR, IN DECEMBER OF '95 -- PLEDGED ABOUT SIXTY-TWO MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE FIRST QUARTER OF THIS YEAR. CONGRESS, IN THE LAST DAYS OF MARCH, APPROPRIATED A HUNDRED AND FORTY-FIVE MILLION FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR. SO WE WILL BE IN A POSITION TO COMMIT TO, IN THE AREA, JUST OVER TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS FOR THIS YEAR, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH OUR OVERALL TARGETS. SO, THE UNITED STATES IS PROCEEDING AS WE HAD PLANNED TO AND COMMITTED TO. THE REST OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AT THE DONORS' CONFERENCE IN DECEMBER -- I CAN SAY IN SHORTHAND -- CAME THROUGH AND MADE THE RIGHT COMMITMENTS. AND WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT, AT THIS DONORS' CONFERENCE THAT IS GOING ON NOW IN BRUSSELS, WE'LL SEE A SIMILAR COMMITMENT ON THE MARK FOR WHAT WE NEED TO MAKE THE ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT A SUCCESS. THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE ENVISIONED REALLY SPAN AN ENORMOUS AREA, FROM REBUILDING OF INFRASTRUCTURE, BRIDGES AND ROADS, REBUILDING OF HOUSING STOCK, HELPING WITH UTILITIES -- THE UNITED STATES, IN PARTICULAR, HAS A PROGRAM THAT'S DESIGNED TO PROVIDE LOANS SO SMALL BUSINESSES CAN THEMSELVES REGENERATE AND GET GOING. SO THERE'S A LOT TO BE DONE AND A LOT OF COORDINATION TO BE DONE.

    HOST: LET ME QUICKLY MENTION BY REPEATING WHAT PRESIDENT CLINTON HAD SAID, THAT THERE'S NO PEACE IN BOSNIA WITHOUT JUSTICE. WHAT IS YOUR EXPECTATION OF THE WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL AND THAT PROCESS?

    GALLUCCI: I'M GLAD YOU RAISED THAT POINT BECAUSE THAT'S BEEN VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS. IT GOES, I THINK, TO THE ETHICAL AND MORAL BASIS FOR OUR INVOLVEMENT. AND WE ARE, OF COURSE, VERY CONCERNED THAT, NOW THAT THE WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL HAS INDICTED FIFTY OR SO INDIVIDUALS, THAT, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THAT JUSTICE BE DONE IN THAT CONNECTION. MAYBE TEN PERCENT OF THOSE INDICTED HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN TAKEN TO, OR FOUND THEIR WAY TO, THE HAGUE FOR JUDICIAL ACTION. WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO PRESS POLITICAL LEADERS EVERYWHERE SO THAT THOSE [WHO] ARE INDICTED ARE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

    HOST: SORRY. I'M AFRAID THAT WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK OUR GUEST -- ROBERT GALLUCCI, AMBASSADOR AT LARGE AT THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT -- FOR JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THE PROSPECTS FOR PEACE IN BOSNIA. THIS IS ROBERT REILLY FOR ON THE LINE.

    11-Apr-96 3:46 PM EDT (1946 UTC)
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    Source: Voice of America

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