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Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-01-15

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 15.1.1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

* Shmera, synedriase to KYSEA. Gnwrizete thn allagh h opoia ephlqe sthn hgesia toy Genikoy Epiteleioy Naytikoy (GEN). Neos Arxhgos topoqeteitai o mexri twra Arxhgos Stoloy, Antinayarxos k. Gewrgios Iwannidhs. To KYSEA qa synedriasei pali mexri tis 15 Febroyarioy gia na krinei alloys hgetikoys paragontes twn Enoplwn Dynamewn, se neyralgikes dhladh qeseis, kai na proxwrhsei -an ayto krinetai skopimo kai aparaithto- se allages.

* Gia to programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy sas exw enhmerwsei. Einai se ejelijh h synergasia toy Prwqypoyrgoy me thn hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Gewrgias, th Dioikhsh ths Agrotikhs Trapezas, ta koinoboyleytika kai kommatika stelexh toy PASOK poy asxoloyntai me qemata ths Gewrgias. H synedriash ayth exei antikeimeno ta agrotika problhmata.

Akoloyqws, o Prwqypoyrgos qa exei synanthsh me thn Ypoyrgo Anaptyjhs ka Basw Papandreoy.

* Ayrio, stis 10 to prwi, qa synedriasei to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio me qema thn politikh ston tomea ths koinwnikhs pronoias.

* Shmera, apo tis 11 to prwi, mexri kai prin apo ligh wra eixame anaxaitiseis apo ellhnika maxhtika aeroskafh toyrkikwn polemikwn aeroplanwn, ta opoia petajan ston ellhniko enaerio xwro, metajy Lesboy kai Xioy kai notiotera. Ta toyrkika polemika aeroskafh anaxaitisthkan epityxws. Prokalei entypwsh to oti h Toyrkia epimenei se mia adiejodh gi' aythn politikh. Sthn prajh opws sto parelqon, opws shmera, etsi kai sto mellon qa antimetwpizetai ayth h symperifora ths. Epishs, se politiko kai diplwmatiko epipedo, oles ekeines oi energeies oi opoies ginontai, pisteyoyme oti apodidoyn karpoys kai enisxyoyn th qesh ths Elladas, me thn ennoia oti bohqoyn thn epixeirhmatologia mas gia toys kindynoys oi opoioi elloxeyoyn sthn perioxh, logw ths symperiforas thn opoia epideiknyei h Toyrkia.

* Yparxei shmerino dhmosieyma ths efhmeridas "EJOYSIA", oson afora to xarth syxnothtwn. Diatypwnetai ena erwthma an apeilei, o xarths o opoios exei ekdoqei, th dhmosia asfaleia. Prepei na pw -epeidh qa ekdoqei anakoinwsh kai apo to Ypoyrgeio Metaforwn, Epikoinwniwn poy einai synarmodio, afoy allwste kai o Ypoyrgos Metaforwn exei ypogracei ayto to xarth- oti den antapokrinontai sthn alhqeia ta osa perilambanontai s' ayto to dhmosieyma. Lypoymai, giati yparxoyn paragontes sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh, oi opoioi, epi tosa xronia, den katorqwsan na symbaloyn me tis texnikes gnwseis toys, prokeimenoy na aposafhnistei to radiothleoptiko topio. Kai twra, poy h prospaqeia ayth exei ftasei se ena poly kalo shmeio, exoyme mia poly ikanopoihtikh ejelijh, kai pali ginetai prospaqeia na yponomeyqei ayth h proodos me diafores tetoies diadoseis. Kanw ayth thn anakoinwsh prwtogenws, epeidh akribws blepw oti h efhmerida epikaleitai kykloys toy Ypoyrgeioy Metaforwn. Ayto einai analhqes.

* O Proedros ths N.D. se dhlwseis tis opoies ekane, oson afora thn ellhnikh oikonomia kai thn oikonomikh politikh ths Kybernhshs, epanelabe kai jeperase ton eayto toy. Anaferqhke se problhmata ta opoia yparxoyn, me enan tetoio tropo, o opoios den exei antikrysma alhqeias. Ekane logo gia thn apostash poy mas xwrizei apo ta krithria gia thn eisodo mas sthn Oikonomikh kai Nomismatikh Enwsh (ONE). Kai toy diafeygei, hqelhmena, oti perissotero para pote eimaste poly konta sthn ekplhrwsh twn krithriwn aytwn, xarh sthn oikonomikh politikh thn opoia exoyme akoloyqhsei ta teleytaia xronia.

O k. Karamanlhs milhse gia to problhma ths anergias kai hqelhmena agnoei oti ston tomea ayto, poy pragmatika -opws kai alles megales xwres ths Eyrwphs- kai h Ellada antimetwpizei ena krisimo problhma, xreiazetai na eimaste oloi pio ypeyqynoi stis analyseis kai stoys sxoliasmoys stoys opoioys probainoyme. Allwste - kai epikaloymai stoixeia ths Eyrwpadkhs Epitrophs- h Ellada einai mia xwra h opoia ston tomea ayto exei epideijei ikanopoihtika apotelesmata me thn akoloyqoymenh oikonomikh politikh. Ta stoixeia ths Eyrwpadkhs Epitrophs gia to 1998 problepoyn pososto anergias gia thn Ellada ycoys 9,3%, gia to 1999 pososto anergias gia thn Ellada ycoys 9,2%, otan ta antistoixa pososta gia alles xwres einai poly ychlotera. Fer' eipein, gia th Gallia ta pososta ayta einai 12,3% gia to 1998 kai 11,9% gia to 1999. Gia thn Ispania ta pososta ayta einai 19,8% gia to 1998 kai 18,7% gia to 1999. Gia thn Italia ta pososta einai 11,9% gia to 1998 kai 11,8% gia to 1999.

Epishs, o k. Karamanlhs kanei logo gia tis anagkaies diarqrwtikes tomes oi opoies prepei na ginoyn. Toy diafeygei skopimws -giati asfalws zei sthn Ellada kai den agnoei thn pragmatikothta- oti oi diarqrwtikes metaboles oi opoies exoyn ginei sthn ellhnikh oikonomia, exoyn ginei apo ayth thn Kybernhsh. Exoyme proxwrhsei se metoxopoihseis megalwn Organismwn. To programma twn metoxopoihsewn synexizetai kai qa stefqei me epityxia, opws mexri twra exei symbei. Exoyme labei apofaseis gia thn katarghsh Organismwn h th sygxwneysh Dhmosiwn Epixeirhsewn poy exoyn omoeides antikeimeno, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyme dapanes toy kratoys poy den einai aparaithtes, den einai anagkaies.

O k. Karamanlhs, epeidh yparxoyn problhmata, logiko einai na anaferetai sta problhmata ayta. Qa prepei, omws, gia na einai peistikh h kritikh toy, na th synodeyei me to dikaio epaino pros thn Kybernhsh, ws anagnwrish twn epiteygmatwn, twn beltiwsewn poy exoyme epityxei me thn oikonomikh politikh poy akoloyqoyme. Kai an ayto den einai nohto, den einai fysiko na symbainei apo enan politiko ths Antipoliteyshs, toylaxiston qa prepei na apofeygei na anaferetai sta krisima ayta qemata me tetoia aneyqynothta.

O k. Karamanlhs anadeiknyetai se politiko twn logwn. Apenanti sto cema twn logwn toy, emeis antiparaqetoyme thn alhqeia toy ergoy mas.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, mporeite na ginete pio analytikos, posa toyrkika kai posa ellhnika aeroskafh eneplakhsan; Kai ti ennoeite otan lete "anaxaitisthkan epityxws";

REPPAS: Oti, otan parabiasan ta toyrkika aeroskafh ton ellhniko enaerio xwro, ta eyriskomena se etoimothta ellhnika maxhtika aeroskafh petajan kai empodisan ta toyrkika maxhtika na synexisoyn thn pthsh toys. H antidrash apo ta ellhnika polemika aeroskafh htan amesh, htan akariaia. Epeidh h atakth ayth drasthriothta synexisthke mexri kai prin apo ligo, prepei na pw oti den exei oloklhrwqei akomh h ejetash twn stigmatwn, twn ixnwn twn sxhmatismwn, gi' ayto argotera qa exete sth diaqesh sas ta stoixeia ayta me perissoteres leptomereies.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, mhn to eklabete ws eirwneia, mhpws gnwrizei h Kybernhsh ti qa ginei me ton k. Mperns; Jerete ti qa ginei m' ayton ton kyrio;

REPPAS: O k. Mperns einai presbhs twn HPA sthn Ellada. Den exei oristei apo thn Ellhnikh Kybernhsh s' ayth th qesh. Qa prepei na rwthsete, loipon, thn Kybernhsh twn HPA, an qelete apanthsh, pragmati, sto erwthma poy qetete. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh epiqymei kales sxeseis kai synergasia me tis HPA. Pisteyoyme oti o presbhs twn HPA mporei, metajy twn allwn, na apotelesei paragonta poy qa symbalei sthn anaptyjh stenoterhs synergasias metajy twn dyo xwrwn. H synergasia ayth prepei na sthrizetai se koines ajies kai se qeseis kai arxes, oi opoies einai symfwnes me to Dieqnes Dikaio h toys kanones oi opoioi oikodomoyn th dieqnh ennomh tajh. Pisteyoyme, loipon, oti opws h politikh poy akoloyqei h xwra mas, einai symfwnh me toys kanones aytoys, etsi kai h politikh twn allwn xwrwn, poy ekfrazetai me dhlwseis paragontwn toys h akoloyqeitai apo tis dynameis twn xwrwn aytwn, qa prepei na einai symfwnh me aytoys toys kanones.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Xqes, o k. Mperns, metajy allwn -sta opoia fantazomai qa anaferqoyme- ejhre to rolo ths xwras toy gia thn epembash sta ellhnika pragmata kata ton emfylio polemo kai metemfyliaka. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh exei kapoio sxolio ep' aytoy;

REPPAS: H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh, opws kai eseis allwste, gnwrizei poia einai h istoria twn teleytaiwn dekaetiwn sthn patrida mas. H istoria exei grafei apo toys istorikoys. H Kybernhsh ajiopoiei thn istorikh empeiria kai thn istorikh gnwsh. H Kybernhsh epidiwkei panw sto shmera na oikodomhsei to mellon ths xwras, na prosferei ston ellhniko lao thn eyhmeria, thn anaptyjh. Na prosferei sthn Ellada thn prooptikh mias isxyrhs xwras sthn Enwmenh Eyrwph. Den einai dynaton h Kybernhsh na koita sto parelqon. Einai gnwsto se oloys sas, poios einai o rolos poy epaije kaqe dynamh sto eswteriko ths xwras h ejw apo th xwra. Kai h istoria den allazei pia. Mporei o kaqenas na exei th dikh toy optikh, alla h istoria einai mia.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Anejarthtws toy ti leei h istoria, yparxoyn kai ayta poy leei o k. Mperns. Kai to erwthma poy qetw egw, einai to ejhs: H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh protiqetai na epanaferei sthn tajh ton presbeyth twn HPA;

REPPAS: H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh, otan antilambanetai oti paragontes jenhs xwras leitoyrgoyn se baros twn symferontwn ths xwras mas, analambanei prwtoboylia kai probainei se oles ekeines tis energeies, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisei to problhma poy dhmioyrgeitai. Den exoyme kapoio tetoio qema na antimetwpisoyme sthn prokeimenh periptwsh.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Egine antilhpto apo thn Kybernhsh oti xqes, metajy allwn, o k. Mperns eipe oti h Ellada den exei 10 milia eqniko enaerio xwro, alla diekdikei na exei 10 milia;

REPPAS: O k. Mperns ekane sxetikes dhlwseis. Exei anakalesei dhlwseis. Ayto to opoio exei ginei antilhpto -eyxomai- kai apo esas kai apo oloys, einai ayto poy eipa kai apotelei politikh ths Kybernhshs mas, oti h Ellada epi polles dekaeties, 60 kai pleon xronia, exei eqniko enaerio xwro 10 miliwn. Einai mia pragmatikothta, thn opoia oydeis amfisbhthse gia para polla xronia. Einai mia qesh, h opoia gia mas paramenei h idia. Aythn yperaspizomaste kai den qa epitrecoyme se opoiondhpote na amfisbhthsei ayth thn politikh poy emeis exoyme xarajei.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: To gegonos oti ayta poy leei o k. Mperns peri toy roloy ths xwras toy gia na apofeyxqei h entajh ths Elladas sto "sidhroyn parapetasma", einai koybentes oi opoies exoyn diatypwqei epaneilhmmena kai apo ton k. Shmith. Problhmatizei thn Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh problhmatizetai gia ta problhmata poy kaleitai na antimetwpisei, giati h epityxhs antimetwpish aytwn twn problhmatwn, einai kai to krithrio gia thn proodo ths xwras mas, prokeimenoy h Ellada toy 21oy aiwna na einai mia Ellada poly kalyterh apo th shmerinh, opws h shmerinh Ellada einai poly kalyterh apo thn Ellada kapoiwn prohgoymenwn dekaetiwn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Prohgoymenws mas eipate gia thn oikonomia oti proxwraei, oti einai poly kalh, oti oi tsepes olwn einai, sxedon, gemates. Giati diamartyrontai tote kaqe mera stoys dromoys, anergoi, ergazomenoi, dhmosioi ypallhloi, biotexnes, oloi; Giati diamartyrontai afoy einai toso poly kalh h oikonomia;

REPPAS: Diatypwsate thn erwthsh sas me enan tropo poy antilambaneste oti den einai dynaton na prokalesei th dikh moy...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Apanthsh;

REPPAS: ...apanthsh, sto idio yfos. Den einai dynaton. Den prepei na sas parakoloyqhsw se ayto to yfos. Gnwrizoyme oti yparxoyn problhmata sth xwra mas. Gia ta problhmata ayta emeis omiloyme prwtoi, giati anadeiknyontas ayta ta problhmata me ypeyqyno tropo omws -oxi dhmagwgwntas, oxi kerdoskopwntas politika- epitygxanoyme thn kinhtopoihsh olwn twn dynamewn toy eqnoys mas, prokeimenoy na broyme lysh gia ta problhmata ayta. H ellhnikh Kybernhsh den exei paraleicei na milhsei gia ta problhmata. To kanei, omws, me enan tetoio ypeyqyno tropo, wste, enw kanoyme th diagnwsh gia thn yparjh twn problhmatwn, exoyme taytoxrona kai mia tekmhriwmenh kai ypeyqynh politikh protash, gia na antimetwpisoyme ayta ta problhmata. Oi ejelijeis -to martyroyn oi deiktes, to omologoyn paragontes entos kai ektos Elladas- mporw na pw oti exoyn dikaiwsei se megalo baqmo thn politikh poy akoloyqoyme se oloys toys tomeis. Asfalws, prepei, akomh, na epityxoyme polla. Oydeis antilogos. Alla, den prepei ta problhmata ayta na xrhsimopoioyntai ws bash, wste kapoioi, epeidh den exoyn programmatikh protash, epeidh den exoyn politikes qeseis, me thn anadeijh aytwn twn problhmatwn kai monon na epidiwkoyn thn politikh toys paroysia sth dhmosia zwh ths xwras. Ayto einai katwtero twn peristasewn ths xwras, einai katwtero ths eyqynhs enos kommatos, idiaitera toy kommatos ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite "oi deiktes"; Dhladh, oi ariqmoi eyhmeroyn, qelete na mas peite, kai oxi o laos;

REPPAS: Qelw na pw -giati xrhsimopoieite th gnwsth frash poy exei eipwqei kai exei toso poly xrhsimopoihqei, gi ayto mhn th xrhsimopoioyme pleon- oti asfalws, qa prepei na epidiwkoyme th beltiwsh twn synqhkwn zwhs. Ayto einai to prwto. Alla, ektos twn allwn kai oi deiktes exoyn thn ajia toys. Den eimaste doyloi ths statistikhs, alla qa prepei na symfiliwqoyme me thn idea oti kai oi statistikoi deiktes, sto sygxrono kosmo exoyn th qesh toys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Epeidh eipate oti ginetai mia syskech toy Prwqypoyrgoy me thn hgesia toy ypoyrgeioy Gewrgias, mhpws, shmera, qa syzhthsoyn kai gi ayth th skandalwdh tropologia twn 200 dis., me aytoys toys "apatewnes" poy ...;

REPPAS: Einai se ejelijh ayth h synergasia. Den gnwrizw to periexomeno ths. Na eiste sigoyros oti qa exete enhmerwsh. Anamenetai, loipon, na oloklhrwqei kai qa enhmerwqeite.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ayto to qema den einai mesa;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw thn atzenta ths syzhthshs. Sas eipa oti einai se ejelijh ayth h synergasia. Ara, loipon, qa anamenete na oloklhrwqei, prokeimenoy na exoyme ta apotelesmata ths.

SOYRMELH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela na rwthsw gia to qema twn parabiasewn: Prwton, an yphrje kapoio neo stoixeio. Htan katw apo ta 6 n.m , htan metajy 6 kai 10 n.m. oi parabiaseis; Kai, deyteron, mhpws exete kapoion ariqmo;

REPPAS: Eipa oti ginetai ayth h ejetash twn stoixeiwn, twn ixnwn, gia toys sxhmatismoys poy eishlqan, gia tis perioxes stis opoies petajan. Eipa, se poly genikes grammes, poies perioxes einai aytes. Argotera, qa exoyme me leptomereies ayta ta stoixeia.

MIXAHL: Janablepoyme dhmosieymata ston Typo, opws synebh kai prin apo 10-15-20 hmeres, oti yparxei antiparaqesh metajy twn syndikatwn kai ths neas Dioikhshs ths Olympiakhs. Synebh kai prin 20 meres me ton k. Fqenakh. H Kybernhsh poia qesh exei gia thn antimetwpish olwn aytwn twn fainomenwn;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh proxwra sthn egkatastash ths neas hgesias ths O.A. Qa akoloyqhqoyn oi koinoboyleytikes diadikasies poy problepontai se aytes tis periptwseis. Pisteyoyme oti o megalos aytos aerometaforeas, prokeimenoy na ejygianqei kai na mporesei na ginei isxyra antagwnistikos, qa prepei na symballoyn oles oi pleyres. Giati h Dioikhsh, oso kai an diaqetei kalh qelhsh kai gnwsh gia na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths epixeirhshs, den einai dynaton na epityxei an den exei th syndromh twn ergazomenwn kai, bebaiws, twn organwmenwn dynamewn, twn syndikatwn -se ayta anaferomai- poy drasthriopoioyntai sthn O.A. Pisteyoyme, loipon, oti metajy twn allwn, metro prwths shmasias gia thn O.A. einai na yparjei ergasiakh eirhnh prokeimenoy apo koinoy hgesia kai ergazomenoi ths O.A. na antimetwpisoyn ta problhmata ths epixeirhshs.

MIXAHL: H amerikanikh Kybernhsh exei ekfrasei pros thn ellhnikh Kybernhsh, kaq? oiondhpote tropo, enoxlhsh h kapoia dysforia ths gia olh ayth th syzhthsh poy ginetai gyrw apo tis dhlwseis toy k. Mperns;

REPPAS: Den exei ekfrastei kapoia tetoia antidrash. Allwste, h syzhthsh ayth ginetai dhmosiws kai den einai dynaton na epiblhqei logokrisia h na astynomeytei o dhmosios dialogos. Ginetai apo ta Mesa Enhmerwshs h apo paragontes ths dhmosias zwhs ths xwras, oi opoioi eleyqera lene tis apoceis toys.

MIXAHL: O k. Tsilas exei klhqei apo Ajiwmatoyxoys toy Steit Ntipartment gia na syzhthsei to qema ayto;

REPPAS: Den exei teqei tetoio qema.

SOYGLERHS: Oi plhrofories anaferoyn oti h diypoyrgikh epitroph proteine, xqes, ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias Kwsth Stefanopoylo, na teqei epikefalhs ths Organwtikhs Epitrophs gia thn Olympiada toy 2004. Einai alhqeia ayto; Exete kapoio sxolio; Exoyn katalhjei kapoy;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti to organwtiko sxhma, to opoio qa yposthrijei th diorganwsh twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn toy 2004, problepei th dhmioyrgia mias megalhs, eqnikoy xarakthra, Epitrophs, sthn opoia qa laboyn meros, kinhtopoioymenes, oles oi koinwnikes kai politikes dynameis. Kai, akomh, mias organwtikhs Epitrophs h opoia, me thn morfh anwnymhs etaireias, qa analabei epi kaqhmerinhs, pleon, basews ta sxetika me th diorganwsh ths Olympiadas. Yparxei arketos xronos akomh prokeimenoy na asxolhqei h Kybernhsh kai na anakoinwsei ta proswpa ekeina, ta opoia qa stelexwsoyn tis Epitropes aytes. Exei teqei ayto to qema, pragmati, gia ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias. Qa antimetwpistei sto plaisio aytwn twn syzhthsewn. Kai efoson symfwnei o Proedros ths Dhmokratias, pisteyw oti ayth qa einai mia poly kalh ejelijh. Alla, bebaiws, den einai h wra gia na anakoinwsoyme mia tetoia topoqethsh.

SOYGLERHS: Sthn Epitroph qa metexoyn kai proswpa makria apo thn politikh zwh, p.x. epixeirhmaties, biomhxanoi, proedroi omospondiwn, opws exei anakoinwqei; Giati akoygetai oti qa einai 15meles to sxhma.

REPPAS: Eipa oti h Organwtikh, ayth, Epitroph poy qa leitoyrghsei me th morfh anwnymhs etaireias, qa einai 15melhs. Eyqys ej arxhs, syzhtwntas to qema ths diorganwshs ths Olympiadas toy 2004, tonisame oti h stelexwsh twn organwn aytwn qa ginei me krithrio th gnwsh kai thn ikanothta twn stelexwn poy qa epilegoyn kai qa klhqoyn na analaboyn ayto to shmantiko ergo kai, bebaiws, oxi me bash politika h kommatika krithria. Prepei na pw oti eyqys ws leitoyrghsei h Epitroph ayth, me th nomoqetikh protash thn opoia qa kataqesoyme kai qa to problepei, qa leitoyrghsei kai mia 3melhs Elegktikh Epitroph, apo melh toy Elegktikoy Symboylioy. Ayta ta tria melh qa ta orisei o Proedros toy Elegktikoy Symboylioy, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyn ta qemata ths oikonomikhs diaxeirishs, enocei ths diorganwshs ths Olympiadas, wste na epityxoyme, sto megisto baqmo, thn epiqymhth apo oloys diafaneia.

KYRIAKIDOY: Epistrefw sto qema toy k. Mperns. H ellhnikh Kybernhsh exei opoiodhpote problhma h dysareskeia gia to neo Amerikano presbh. Kai poia einai ayth;

REPPAS: Den mas exei apasxolhsei tetoio qema.

FILHS: Antimetwpizei h Kybernhsh to endexomeno na oristei Proedros h Antiproedros toy forea 2004, ths anwnymhs etaireias, o k. Abramopoylos;

REPPAS: Den exei ginei opoiadhpote syzhthsh gia ta proswpa, ta opoia qa stelexwsoyn aytoys toys foreis. Antilambanomai pws otan qetete erwthmata, anaferomenoi se sygkekrimena proswpa, prokaleitai ena endiaferon. Den qa endwsw se ayton ton peirasmo. Prepei na pw, omws, oti den exei apasxolhsei thn Kybernhsh, o,tidhpote afora thn epilogh proswpwn.

FILHS: Eipate prin oti o Prwqypoyrgos proedreyei, shmera, se syskech kybernhtikwn kai kommatikwn paragontwn ths Agrotikhs Trapezas, gia to agrotiko qema. Ennoeite kommatikwn paragontwn toy PASOK h olwn twn kommatwn;

REPPAS: Qelete, dhladh, na pw oti proedreyei ypo thn idiothta toy Proedroy toy PASOK; Ayth einai h dieykrinish poy me kaleite na kanw;

FILHS: Proedreyei ths dioikhshs ths Agrotikhs Trapezas, me thn idiothta toy Proedroy toy PASOK;

REPPAS: An ayth einai h dieykrinish poy qelete na kanw, prepei na sas pw oti, o Prwqypoyrgos, opws eipa, exei mia synanthsh, mia syzhthsh, me koinoboyleytika kai kommatika stelexh toy PASOK, alla kai ths hgesias toy ypoyrgeioy Gewrgias kai me th Dioikhsh ths Agrotikhs Trapezas, gia to agrotiko qema ths xwras. Asfalws, einai synhqes na ginontai tetoioy eidoys ergasies. Allwste, de nomizw oti o typos prepei na einai aytos, o opoios qa desmeyei tis dynatothtes poy mas parexontai, prokeimenoy mesw tetoiwn synergasiwn, na asxoloymeqa me ta problhmata ths xwras kai na ta antimetwpizoyme ikanopoihtika. Ayto prepei na kanoyme. Mhn eimaste typolatres.

FILHS: Eipate oti den exei apasxolhsei thn Kybernhsh to qema twn dhlwsewn toy k. Mperns. Qa hqela na rwthsw, epeidh h ellhnikh Kybernhsh exei epityxei thn eklogh ths kai twra kai paliotera epi th basei orismenwn ektimhsewn gia to parelqon. Den parelqontologoyse otan elege "o laos den jexna ti shmainei dejia". To elege giati pisteye oti ep' ayths ths ektimhshs ekfrazotan ena eyoiwno mellon. Paramenete se aytes tis ektimhseis toy PASOK;

REPPAS: Den einai dynaton na me kaleite na apanthsw ws PASOK. Qa milhsw ws ekproswpos ths Kybernhshs. Ws Kybernhsh, loipon, den eipa oti den mas apasxolhse to qema twn dhlwsewn toy k. Mperns. Allo htan to erwthma poy eteqh kai edwsa thn apanthsh, oti den mas apasxolhse ayto to qema. Parakalw, na anatrejete sthn erwthsh h opoia diatypwqhke. Gnwrizete poly kala oti exw klhqei na apanthsw se diafora erwthmata, sxetika me tis dhlwseis toy k. Mperns kai exw dwsei apanthseis, stis opoies epanerxomai.

FILHS: Ti ennoeite, den katalaba;

REPPAS: Kalws. Otan ta diabasete qa antilhfqeite.

FILHS: H erwthsh einai safhs. Den anaferomai sto qema poy afora shmera ta eji kai deka milia, pragma gia to opoio dwsate kapoies apanthseis. Anaferomai sta istorikhs fysews qemata, sta opoia epeleje na anaferqei o k. Mperns. Allos Amerikanos Presbeyths ta teleytaia xronia den exei qesei tetoia qemata. O k. Mperns edwse ta diapisteythria toy, kanontas mia istorikh anadromh. Ayth exei politikh shmasia. Apo thn Kybernhsh yparxei politikh apanthsh;

REPPAS: Isxyei kai gia th dikh sas erwthsh h apanthsh poy edwsa kai ston k. Mpogiopoylo kai xairomai poy sympiptete sthn erwthsh ayth.

KIAOS: Synexizei h Kybernhsh na qewrei eyprosdektes tis yphresies twn HPA gia to Kypriako kai tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis;

REPPAS: Otan oi HPA, alla kai alles kybernhseis ekdhlwnoyn endiaferon na syndramoyn stis prospaqeies, na yparjei lysh sto kypriako problhma, asfalws tis xairetizome ws ena qetiko gegonos. Ayto to opoio, omws, exw kat' epanalhch pei, einai oti qa kriqoyn oi prwtoboylies aytes apo to plaisio entos toy opoioy qa kinhqoyn. Yparxoyn apofaseis toy Organismoy Hnwmenwn Eqnwn. Yparxoyn symfwnies koryfhs poy exoyn ginei, hdh, apo th dekaetia toy ' 70, oson afora to kypriako qema. Aytes, akribws, einai oi qeseis, oi syntetagmenes poy orizoyn kai to plaisio entos toy opoioy mporei na analabei prwtoboylia opoiosdhpote me kalh pisth kai diaqesh, wste na symbalei sth lysh toy kypriakoy problhmatos. Yp' ayto to prisma den exoyme kanena logo na blepoyme arnhtika tetoioy eidoys prwtoboylies.

KIAOS: Epeidh sas rwthsa kai gia tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis, idiaitera me th xqesinh qesh, thn kainoyrgia...

REPPAS: Den exei ekdhlwqei endiaferon apo opoiondhpote na analabei prwtoboylies gia tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis. Oi HPA den exoyn analabei opoiadhpote prwtoboylia, oson afora tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis. Oi HPA askoyn thn ejwterikh politikh toys kai diatypwnoyn tis qeseis toys gia ta qemata ths Ellados, ths Toyrkias h twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn. Alla einai diaforetiko ayto, apo to analaboyn sygkekrimenh prwtoboylia, opws sygkekrimenh prwtoboylia exoyn anakoinwsei oti analambanei o k. Xolmproyk gia to Kypriako.

KIAOS: Egw den sas rwthsa gia prwtoboylia, alla gia eyprosdektes apo thn Ellada yphresies sto qema twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn.

REPPAS: Apo oloys oi yphresies oi opoies mporoyn na parasxeqoyn, oson afora tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis, einai eyprosdektes, efoson oi prwtoboylies aytes kinoyntai entos toy plaisioy toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy kai toy sebasmoy twn dieqnwn synqhkwn. Ayto einai aytonohto. Qa htan anohtos kaneis ean exei antirrhsh otan kapoios qelei na dhlwsei -kai me to diko toy tropo- th symfwnia toy sthn yperaspish aytwn twn Arxwn Dikaioy.

KIAOS: Kinoyntai oi teleytaies dhlwseis, gia "diekdikhsh ek meroys ths Ellados deka miliwn ston aera", entos twn dieqnwn synqhkwn;

REPPAS: Gi' ayta apanthsame.

KIAOS: Oxi, s' ayto den apanthsate. Epitrecte moy. An ektimate oti kinoyntai mesa sto plaisio toy sebasmoy twn dieqnwn synqhkwn.

REPPAS: Otan emeis, exoyme diatypwsei th qesh mas kai yperaspizomaste thn politikh poy aporreei apo ayth thn qesh, eseis eykolotata mporeite na bgalete ta symperasmata sas. Asfalws, edw yparxei shmeio diafwnias. Alla, prepei na tonisw kai pali oti ayto to opoio exei shmasia gia na mh dhmioyrgoyme paranohseis, einai h antimetwpish ths epiboylhs, ths proklhtikothtas kai ths epiqetikothtas ths Agkyras kai sthn prospaqeia ayth poy kanei h xwra mas, prepei na strecoyme kyriws to endiaferon mas. Oson afora tis dhlwseis jenwn paragontwn, prepei na pw oti, paralassoyn apo paragonta se paragonta. Symbainei malista, oson afora toys idioys paragontes oi dhlwseis aytes na einai diaforetikes apo periodo se periodo. Den qelw na krinw oles aytes tis dhlwseis. Ayto to opoio epanalambanw einai oti h qesh ths ellhnikhs Kybernhshs einai safhs. Ayth prepei na ginei sebasth, giati einai qesh poy edw kai para polla xronia exei diatypwqei. Den amfisbhthqhke kai einai symfwnh me to Dieqnes Dikaio.

KIAOS: Epitrecte moy na epimeinw sto ejhs: Sas rwthsa an einai mesa sto plaisio poy orizete eseis, sebasmoy twn dieqnwn synqhkwn h sygkekrimenh dhlwsh toy k. Mperns. Tipota perissotero.

REPPAS: O k. Mperns diatypwse mia qesh h opoia den mas briskei symfwnoys, giati qewroyme oti den antapokrinetai stis arxes kai toys kanones toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy h twn Dieqnwn Synqhkwn, poy yparxoyn edw kai para polla xronia kai throyntai sthn perioxh. Allwste, an den elega ayto, qa anetrepa ayto poy eipa molis prin, peri ths ajias kai ths nomimothtas ths ellhnikhs qeshs. Otan h ellhnikh qesh einai ayth kai yparxei diafwnia, den antilambaneste ej' antidiastolhs kai mono oti h diafwnia ayth bohqaei wste na bgalete to symperasma to opoio abiasta mporeite na bgalete;

MPOGIOPOYLOS: O k. Mperns den einai istorikos. Einai ena politiko proswpo. Ws ek toytoy, den einai armodios gi' ayta poy leei, gia ta maqhmata Istorias ta opoia ta exei mperdecei, diabazei amerikanika profanws. Na toy apanthsei enas istorikos armodios h na toy apanthsei enas armodios politikos kai en prokeimenoy aytos poy ekproswpei sto anwtato epipedo politika ton ellhniko lao h thn ellhnikh Kybernhsh. Den aisqaneste thn anagkh na apanthsete s' ayta ta opoia leei o k. Mperns gia ton epembatiko rolo ths xwras toy, kata tis prohgoymenes dekaeties sthn Ellada;

REPPAS: Prepei na pw oti dialegete ena qema to opoio den einai kai poly eyxaristo gia para polloys kai to qetete pros syzhthsh. Qelete na syzhthsoyme gia thn poreia twn kaqestwtwn sthn anatolikh Eyrwph; Na kanoyme ayth thn istorikh anadromh gia na bgaloyme ta telika symperasmata mas; Ayto einai to opoio mas kaleite na apanthsoyme; Loipon, epeidh qetei o k. Mperns me tis apoceis toy th dikh toy ekdoxh gia to pws, olh ayth thn poreia twn dekaetiwn thn antimetwpise h th syndiamorfwse h Kybernhsh ths xwras toy emeis prepei ayth thn wra na syzhthsoyme ep' aytoy toy qematos; Qa prepei na pw oti, oi idioi oi laoi exoyn labei tis apofaseis toys. Exoyme aytes tis kosmogonikes allages poy exoyn odhghsei se sygkekrimenes ejelijeis. Emeis ws tritoi, egw ws ekproswpos ths ellhnikhs Kybernhshs, alla kai o Mperns, einai dynaton aythn thn wra poy exoyme mia xeiropiasth pragmatikothta, opws ayth thn opoia apofasisan kai diamorfwsan oi xwres, oi idioi oi laoi, na kaloymeqa ws anwtatoi dikastes na krinoyme thn poreia twn lawn; Sas parakalw na mh to kanoyme.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Poioi idioi laoi. O Mperns leei oti to kaqorise o Troyman kai o Marsal.

REPPAS: Me kaleite na sas pw an exoyn ginei kapoies symfwnies, opws ayth metajy twn HPA, ths Megalhs Bretanias kai ths Sobietikhs Enwshs ekproswpoymenhs apo to Stalin. Me kaleite na pw an yparxoyn kapoies apofaseis poy exoyn labei hgetikoi paragontes twn HPA h allwn xwrwn, gia qemata ths perioxhs. Den einai ayto to antikeimeno ths syzhthshs mas. Kai sas parakalw mhn epimenete. Giati h tyxh toy kosmoy den apofasisthke, toylaxiston ayto lene oi istorikes phges, mono apo mia pleyra, apofasisthke apo perissoteres ths mias pleyres. Kai apo thn hgesia tote ths Sobietikhs Enwshs.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Ayto to opoio sas erwtw einai to ejhs: An Ellhnas presbeyths sthn Oyasigkton phgaine kai elege oti oi Amerikanoi einai foniades twn lawn, oti dolofonhsan ton ellhniko lao ston emfylio, oti ton ekleisan sta jeronhsia kai ola ayta, qewreite eseis oti h ekei amerikanikh kybernhsh den qa ebriske logo na apanthsei se tetoioy eidoys aitiaseis enos Ellhna Presbeyth sthn Oyasigkton;

REPPAS: Giati na kanoyme oles aytes tis ypoqeseis; Giati na kanoyme olo ayto to senario, prokeimenoy na bgaloyme ena symperasma to opoio, ayth thn wra, qa moy epitrecete na pw, den apotelei kai antikeimeno proteraiothtas, poly perissotero otan ta problhmata poy antimetwpizoyme kai ta qetete eseis me tis erwthseis sas, gnwrizete oti einai alla. En pash periptwsei parakalw na mhn kanoyme tetoies ypoqeseis all? oyte kai istorika, alla kai logika almata sto keno.

FILHS: H Kybernhsh, ekproswpoymenh dia toy armodioy Ypoyrgoy k. Papadwannoy, eixe diabebaiwsei toys allodapoys sthn Ellada oti den qa ginontan apelaseis kata th diarkeia aytwn twn mhnwn poy qa grafontai gia thn Karta Ergasias. Xqes, wstoso, synelhfqhsan 30 allodapoi kai odhghqhkan se apelash. Yparxei kapoia ejhghsh gi' ayth thn ejelijh.

REPPAS: Pote eixan eiselqei sthn Ellada oi allodapoi aytoi;

FILHS: ............

REPPAS: H apofash poy exei labei h Kybernhsh gia nomimopoihsh toy kaqestwtos paramonhs allodapwn sthn Ellada, metajy olwn twn allwn, problepei oti h diadikasia ayth afora osoys exoyn eiselqei sthn Ellada mexri teloys Dekembrioy 1997. Den afora aytoys poy en tw metajy eiserxontai sth xwra mas paranomws kai apaitoyn na parameinoyn s' aythn. Den einai dynaton, opws antilambaneste, thn wra poy prospaqoyme na dwsoyme sygkekrimenh nomikh morfh gia na antimetwpisoyme ena kaqestws anarxias kai anomias, taytoxronws na qelete na symbaloyme wste ayto to kaqestws na anaparagetai, dinontas th dynatothta ston opoiondhpote poy ana pasa stigmh epitygxanei na eiserxetai sthn Ellada, na apolambanei aytwn twn arketa shmantikwn ryqmisewn, stis opoies proxwrei h Kybernhsh.

FILHS: Dhladh, isxyei h diabebaiwsh, h desmeysh oti mexri 31/12/97 osoi einai edw den qa apelaqoyn;

REPPAS: Isxyei h desmeysh ths Kybernhshs gia to sygkekrimeno qema, opws kai gia ta alla qemata poy aforoyn ayth thn pragmatika poly shmantikh prwtoboylia, thn opoia exoyme analabei.

KIAOS: Kai pws jexwrizei o xwrofylakas sto dromo oti o tade hrqe meta tis 31 Dekeimbrioy h prwtytera;

REPPAS: Gi' ayto akribws yparxoyn oi Astynomikes Arxes. Gi' ayto yparxoyn oi dioikhtikes yphresies, oi opoies, meta apo ereyna kai diastayrwsh twn stoixeiwn mporoyn poly kala na antimetwpisoyn to kaqe peristatiko, analogws ths idiaiterothtas toy.

MOSXOBAS: Epeidh den hrqa apo thn arxh, diaceysate to dhmosieyma ths efhmeridas "Ejoysia". .....

REPPAS: Diaceydw akribws to dhmosieyma ayto, dioti den antapokrinetai sthn alhqeia to periexomeno toy. Den einai etsi ta pragmata opws paroysiazontai. Milhsa gia kykloys oi opoioi qeloyn na synthrhsoyn ayth thn asafeia sto radiothleoptiko xwro. Yponomeyoyn thn prospaqeia thn opoia kanoyme, gia prwth fora, meta apo polla xronia sthn patrida mas, epiteloys gia na aposafhnisoyme to radiothleoptiko topio. Exei ekdoqei anakoinwsh apo to synarmodio Ypoyrgeio Metaforwn, to opoio diaceydei to dhmosieyma ayto, ws mh antapokrinomeno sthn alhqeia.

Sas eyxaristw poly.


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