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Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-01-21

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 21.1.1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

KIAOS: Epeidh rwthsa kai xqes, an qelete na moy dieykrinisete thn apanthsh poy dwsate xqes gia to keimeno toy nomosxedioy poy edwse o k. Benizelos ekei poy anaferei gia anaqesh kata parekklish keimenwn diatajewn. Einai aporia. Oxi tipota allo.

REPPAS: Meta thn erwthsh toy k. Kiaoy, prepei na kanw ena sxolio, para to oti exei kanei sxetikh dhlwsh o armodios Ypoyrgos Politismoy E. Benizelos kai aposafhnizei ayto to qema apolytws. Prepei na pw oti h apanthsh poy edwsa xqes isxyei. Xqes, to arqro ths efhmeridas "ELEYQEROTYPIA" anaferotan se koinh apofash Ypoyrgwn PEXWDE kai Politismoy poy dhqen problepetai sto nomosxedio, me thn opoia (koinh apofash) kaqorizontai oi oroi domhshs kai oi poleodomikoi kai ktiriologikoi oroi gia kaqe kataskeyastiko ergo olympiakhs ypodomhs, kata parekklish apo tis keimenes diatajeis. Ayto einai to qema, to opoio eqige xqes to sxetiko arqro ths kalhs efhmeridas. Ayto den eystaqei. Pragmati -eipa- den eystaqei. Den yparxei tetoia diatajh sto nomosxedio poy katatiqetai. Shmera, pame s' ena allo pedio, sto pedio ths diafaneias kai ths diaxeirishs twn kondyliwn poy diatiqentai gia thn ekponhsh meletwn, thn kataskeyh ergwn kai th dienergeia promhqeiwn. Den milame gia qemata poy aforoyn thn epibarynsh toy periballontos, qemata sta opoia anaferotan kyriws to xqesino arqro, gia na mhn exoyme kakopoihsh toy periballontos. Opws anefera sygkekrimena, ayta ta qemata mas eyaisqhtopoioyn oloys kai pragmatika den yparxei periptwsh na epitrecoyme emeis mia endexomenh kakopoihsh toy periballontos.

Shmera, loipon, pame sta qemata diafaneias kai diaxeirishs twn kondyliwn, oson afora th dienergeia promhqeiwn, thn kataskeyh ergwn kai thn ekponhsh meletwn. Prepei na pw oti oi diadikasies, oi opoies problepontai, einai aysthrotates, drakonteies qa elega. Den dexomai, ws Ekproswpos ths Kybernhshs, thn kathgoria oti, epeidh akribws den anaferetai ws apaitoymenh pleon h apofash toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, payei na yparxei diafaneia. Poly perissotero otan problepetai na yparjei kai prolhptikos diaxeiristikos elegxos apo trimelh epitroph dikastikwn leitoyrgwn toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy, opws epishs elegxos olwn twn symbasewn poy yperbainoyn, se ajia, ta 100 ekatommyria draxmes ekasth. Ara, loipon, me aytes tis diadikasies -kai symplhrwmatikws, an lhfqei ypoch oti enhmerwnetai kai h Diarkhs Koinoboyleytikh Epitroph Morfwtikwn Ypoqesewn kai oi apofaseis aytes dhmosieyontai sthn Efhmerida ths Kybernhsews- ejasfalizetai, mporoyme na poyme abiasta, h aparaithth diafaneia kai antikeimenikothta sth diaxeirish twn kondyliwn, alla kai sth synach twn symbasewn poy einai aparaithtes gia meletes, promhqeies kai erga poy aforoyn th diorganwsh twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn. Ayto einai ena allo qema. Kai parakalw para poly, epeidh exoyme ypogracei mia symbash kai me th Dieqnh Olympiakh Epitroph, na ektimhsete oti aytes oi ryqmiseis einai kata parekklish, epeidh akribws einai perissotero aysthres kai eisagontai epi toytois gia na antimetwpisoyme ta qemata, oson afora th diaxeirish twn kondyliwn, me apolyth diafaneia. Einai aysthroteres. Einai kati perissotero apo ayto poy yparxei. An ayth h parekklish den einai eyxaristh -poy den to pisteyw- lypoymai. Nomizw, omws, oti einai apolytws epiqymhth. Na orizoyme, dhladh, mia trimelh epitroph kai malista na thn orizei o Proedros toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy, poy qa kanei prolhptiko diaxeiristiko elegxo. Katopin toytoy, einai dynaton na isxyristei kapoios oti den ejasfalizetai h diafaneia; Ayto einai to qema to opoio shmera syzhtoyme.

Epanalambanw oti xqes miloysame gia to qema ths epibarynshs toy periballontos apo thn kataskeyh twn ergwn kai gnwrizete oti tetoio qema den tiqetai me ta osa problepontai sto nomosxedio poy katatiqetai.

KIAOS: Xqes, sas rwthsa, akribws, gia thn kata parekklish twn keimenwn diatajewn anaqesh ergwn. Poyqena den anaferqhka egw se oikodomika pragmata kai oikodomes.

REPPAS: Eidate thn apanthsh poy edwsa xqes, anaferomenos sto arqro ths ELEYQEROTYPIAS; Deite thn apanthsh poy edwsa kai poy anaferqhka egw.

KIAOS: Moy apanthsate, sth safestath, eyqeia erwthsh poy sas ekana, oti den yparxei tetoia diatajh. Aploystata, erxetai o k. Benizelos kai eseis prohgoymenws to dexthkate oti kata parekklish, oson afora thn anaqesh ergwn, meletwn k.lp., ginetai. Ayto einai to qema kai tipote perissotero. Egw den syzhtw twra, o kaqenas grafei tis apoceis toy. Edw, aplws erwtw.

REPPAS: Kalws. Kyrie Kiao, yparxei asfalws paranohsh. Einai dyo diaforetika qemata. Allo ayto to opoio syzhthsame xqes, allo ayto to opoio syzhtoyme shmera.

KIAOS: Egw pantws den exw paranohsei tipota.

REPPAS: Den milw gia sas. Lew oti yparxei ej antikeimenoy paranohsh. Eipa xqes oti to arqro ths ELEYQEROTYPIAS -poy anaferotan se problech h eisagwgh diatajewn, kata parekklish, gia th dhmioyrgia ktiriakhs ypodomhs gia tis anagkes twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn, xwris na akoloyqoyntai oi diadikasies poy pagiws problepontai, mono me koinh apofash twn Ypoyrgwn Periballontos kai Politismoy- den antapokrinetai sta pragmata. H kataqesh toy nomosxedioy, nomizw oti epibebaiwnei ayto to opoio eipa xqes. To qema to opoio tiqetai kai einai allo qema, ths diafaneias kai ths diaxeirishs twn kondyliwn, pisteyw oti antimetwpizetai me aysthroteres, apo tis yparxoyses mexri shmera, pagies diatajeis gia analoga qemata, doqentos oti problepontai prolhptikos diaxeiristikos elegxos apo trimelh epitroph toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy, poy orizei o Proedros toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy, opws epishs kai ereynes gia kaqe symbash ths opoias to antikeimeno jeperna, se ajia, ta 100 ekatommyria draxmes. Nomizw, loipon, oti pragmatika edw exei yparjei mia sygxysh, ena mperdema. Einai dyo diaforetika pragmata. Den miloyme gia kakopoihsh toy periballontos. Oi diadikasies poy akoloyqoyntai pagiws, qa thrhqoyn kai en prokeimenw. Oson afora th diaxeirish twn kondyliwn, pame se "aysthropoihsh" twn diadikasiwn, afoy kai prolhptikos elegxos problepetai kai malista, elegxos apo dikastiko organo, to opoio antilambaneste oti exei thn plhrh aytonomia kai den ypokeitai se opoiodhpote elegxo apo thn Kybernhsh. Me ayth thn ennoia einai poly pio aysthres oi diadikasies, giati den qa einai ena kommatiko, kybernhtiko organo. Kai den einai antifash, giati kapoioi otan apofasizei h Kybernhsh, legoyn oti bebaiws, eseis eiste h Kybernhsh, eseis apofasizete. Dhladh, "Giannhs kernaei, Giannhs pinei". Emeis leme, loipon, oti ena organo ejw apo thn Kybernhsh, ena dikastiko organo to opoio orizei o idios o Proedros toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy, qa einai armodio na asxolhqei me ta ths diaxeirishs twn kondyliwn. Ayth h diadikasia einai poly aysthrh kai ejasfalizei sto megisto dynato baqmo thn epiqymhth apo oloys diafaneia.

KIAOS: Tote afoy einai toso megalh kai kaqarh h diafaneia poy lete sth diadikasia, megalyterh apo prin, giati den allazete olh th nomoqesia poy afora thn anaqesh meletwn, ergwn, opoydhpote ginontai. Na ginontai me thn kainoyrgia diadikasia kai na paei sthn panta h palaioterh.

REPPAS: Yparxei diadikasia, k. Kiao. Sas eipa, epeidh einai ena poly sygkekrimeno gegonos h diorganwsh twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn, den exei prohgoymeno kai den qa exei epomeno prin perasoyn para polla xronia isws. Me ayth thn ennoia, oi diadikasies poy qa akoloyqoyntai einai ejairetikes. To oti einai ejairetikes, den shmainei oti den einai ejisoy aysthres, prokeimenoy na ejasfalizetai h apotelesmatikothta kai h diafaneia sth diaxeirish twn porwn.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, afoy kanate ayth thn topoqethsh shmera, giati den proteinete na allajei h paragrafos -diabazw apo to nomosxedio, selida 7, arqro 2, paragrafos 14- poy dienemhqh xqes "oi diatajeis twn kanonismwn mporoyn na problepoyn parekkliseis apo kaqe keimenh diatajh gia thn anaqesh meletwn kai thn ektelesh dhmosiwn ergwn, kaqws kai gia th dienergeia kratikwn promhqeiwn apo foreis toy Dhmosioy tomea". Giati den zhtate, loipon, meta apo ayth thn protash poy kanate shmera kai apo ayth th skech poy exei h Kybernhsh, na allajei kai ayto to kommati;

REPPAS: Giati den gnwrizete olo to nomosxedio.

SOYGLERHS: Ma, to exoyme sta xeria mas.

REPPAS: An to gnwrizate, qa jerate oti problepetai -epanalambanw- prolhptikos elegxos, oson afora th diaxeirish twn porwn afenos, kai afeteroy, oson afora to synolo twn symbasewn gia meletes, erga h promhqeies, qa yparjei elegxos, epishs aysthros, apo to armodio organo, to opoio systhnetai.

SOYGLERHS: Th skopimothta ayths ths paragrafoy den katalabainw. Mporeite na mas th dieykrinisete;

REPPAS: Qa prepei s' ayth thn periptwsh na akoloyqhsoyme -to eipa prin k. Soyglerh- aytes tis apolytws sygkekrimenes diadikasies, oi opoies eisagontai me to nomosxedio poy einai men ejairetikes, ayto omws den shmainei oti den einai ejisoy aysthres. Eseis, epeidh einai diaforetikes, qewreite oti den einai aysthres. Egw sas lew, bebaiws einai aytes oi opoies prosidiazoyn sthn periptwsh, th sygkekrimenh, ths diorganwshs twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn kai einai to idio kai perissotero aysthres apo tis diadikasies poy yparxoyn oson afora alles synafeis ypoqeseis. Ayto sas lew.

KACAMPELHS: Epeidh k. Ypoyrge to lete synexeia, aytos o elegxos apo trimelh Epitroph Dikastikwn qa ginetai, gia na katalaboyme, me bash tis arxes toy Dhmosioy logistikoy, dhladh;

REPPAS: Otan anaqetoyme se mia epitroph dikastwn kai malista Epitroph poy orizei o Proedros toy Elegktikoy Synedrioy, na askei prolhptiko diaxeiristiko elegxo, antilambaneste oti oi dikastes qa exoyn thn ejoysia, thn armodiothta, na proxwroyn se baqos thn ereyna toys, prokeimenoy na epitygxanoyme th diafaneia thn opoia oloi epiqymoyme. Oyai kai alimono an parameinoyme se diadikasies xronobores, xwris apo thn allh -enw qeloyme na antimetwpisoyme aytes tis diadikasies- na ejasfalizoyme th diafaneia sth diaxeirish aytwn twn shmantikotatwn, allwste, poswn, ta opoia qa diateqoyn gia ta erga poy qa xreiazontai enocei ths Olympiadas. Den prepei na sas diafeygei, opws eipe kai o Ypoyrgos Politismoy, oti oloi aytoi oi opoioi syzhtoyn, qa prepei na mhn jexnoyn, oti yparxei kai to Koinotiko Dikaio to opoio pantote isxyei. Kai to aysthro plegma twn diatajewn poy problepei, ana pasa stigmh kai ayto, mporei na xrhsimopoihqei apo opoiondhpote enistameno poy qewrei oti me tis diadikasies aytes, dhmioyrgoyme ena neo kaqestws. Kaqe allo. Sas eipa oti to kaqestws ayto einai aysthro, einai aysthrotero, prokeimenoy na ejasfalisoyme th diafaneia. Kai se ayto, parakalw, prepei oloi na eimaste - an doyme to qema me kalopisth diaqesh- symfwnoi. Einai etsi.

KACAMPELHS: Gia na mhn exoyme pali paranohseis ayrio, h apanthsh sto erwthma einai nai h oxi;

REPPAS: Eipa kai pali oti o elegxos qa ginetai apo toys dikastes aytoys. Oi dikastes aytoi den einai dhmosioi ypallhloi, ypo th stenh ennoia toy oroy. Bebaiws einai kratikoi leitoyrgoi. Omws, to Elegktiko Synedrio leitoyrgei me bash tis arxes toy Dhmosioy Logistikoy. Kai gia thn periptwsh mias Anwnymhs Etairias, opws h sygkekrimenh, metajy twn allwn kai to Elegktiko Synedrio qa symbalei sth diafaneia, sxetika me th diaxeirish. Antilambaneste oti oi diadikasies poy qa akoloyqhqoyn qa einai tetoies, wste na epiteyxqei h epiqymhth diafaneia. Kai bebaiws, qa exoyn thn epikoyria kai th bohqeia olwn twn Elegktikwn Organwn ths Politeias, efoson ayto apaiteitai kai xreiazetai, gia na antapokriqoyn sto rolo toys.

KACAMPELHS: Ma egw den sas rwthsa an qa einai dhmosioi ypallhloi.

REPPAS: Me rwthsate kai sas apanthsa k. Kacampelh.

KACAMPELHS: Etsi dhmioyrgoyntai oi paranohseis kai dhmioyrgoyntai kai oi taraxes.

REPPAS: Qa syzhthqoyn ola ayta. Kaqws qa syzhteitai to nomosxedio ola ayta qa antimetwpistoyn.

KACAMPELHS: Lew to ejhs: O elegxos apo toys dikastes, epeidh dinei barythta apo oti blepw -to exete epaneilhmmenws anaferei- h Kybernhsh, .......

REPPAS: Bebaiws. Ma exei barythta o elegxos aytos.

KACAMPELHS: ...kai o kosmos katalabainei oti qa yparxei mia Epitroph apo Dikastes poy qa bazei katw toys nomoys kai tis boyles ths Politeias kai qa elegxei. Kai egw rwtaw twra: oxi an qa einai dhmosioi ypallhloi oi dikastes, alla an o dikastikos elegxos poy qa ginetai apo thn Trimelh Epitroph, qa ginetai me bash tis arxes toy legomenoy Dhmosioy Logistikoy -jeroyme oloi ti shmainei- h qa isxyei allo kaqestws;

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti h diadikasia h opoia eisagetai, einai mia ejairetikh diadikasia. Thn eyqynh gia to diaxeiristiko elegxo qa thn exei to Elegktiko Synedrio, mesw twn triwn melwn toy poy qa orisei o Proedros toy Synedrioy. Einai safestato ayto.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ta idia legate kai gia to AQHNA ' 97 kai gia thn Epitroph anaqeshs twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn. Diafaneia kai elegxoi kai tetoia. Kai eidame kai ekei ti exei ginei. Etsi den legate, gia diafaneia;

REPPAS: Poio einai to erwthma sas;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oti kai gia tis dyo prohgoymenes diorganwseis, mia h diorganwsh kai h allh h Epitroph Anaqeshs, jodeyqhkan disekatommyria apo to forologoymeno ellhniko lao, gia ta opoia, omws, den yphrxe diafaneia. Kai ekei ginan anaqeseis kai kompines.

REPPAS: Asfalws ejasfalisthke h diafaneia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pws ejasfalisthke;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti htan diakommatikoy xarakthra h stelexwsh twn Organwn, poy diekperaiwsan aytoy toy eidoys tis ypoqeseis. Eite anaferomaste sth diorganwsh twn Agwnwn toy Pagkosmioy Prwtaqlhmatos Stiboy, eite anaferomaste sth diekdikhsh ths Olympiadas toy 2004. Kai den prepei na ginetai ayth h sygkrish -qa moy epitrecete na pw- doqentos oti ta erga ta opoia qa ginoyn gia thn Olympiada toy 2004, einai tetoioy megeqoys kai tetoias ychlotaths dapanhs, poy kamia sxesh den exei h Organwsh ths Olympiadas me th diorganwsh twn Agwnwn Stiboy h me th diadikasia ths diekdikhshs ths Olympiadas toy 2004. Kai tote ejasfalisthke diafaneia. Sas eipa kai pali, aceydhs martyras toytoy einai oti symmeteixan ekproswpoi olwn twn forewn twn kommatwn sta armodia organa...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi olwn twn kommatwn.

REPPAS: ... kai twra eisagoyme diadikasies poly perissotero aysthres ap' aytes oi opoies isxyoyn, doqentos oti gia arketa xronia, mexri to 2004, qa einai se ejelijh oles aytes oi leitoyrgies poy aforoyn kataskeyes, promhqeies h th synach symbasewn, wste na prepei apo twra emeis, pronohtikoi kai eyaisqhtoi ontes se tetoioy eidoys qemata, na egkaqidrysoyme toys mhxanismoys poy qa odhghsoyn sth diafaneia, enocei ths Olympiadas toy 2004.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den htan olwn twn kommatwn, poy eipate prohgoymenws.

REPPAS: Htan kai to gnwrizete poly kala.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kati akoma: Ta 100 ekatommyria qewroyntai mikro poso gia na dinontai etsi, xwris ...

REPPAS: Otan lew oti qa yparxei diaxeiristikos elegxos, mexri teleytaias draxmhs, apo dikastiko organo, nomizw oti ayto ta leei ola. Apo thn allh, qa prepei na einai poly pio apotelesmatikes oi diadikasies gia symbaseis poy aforoyn posa anw twn 100 ekatommyriwn draxmwn.

MIXAHL: Qelw na rwthsw, aytes tis kat' ejairesh ryqmiseis poy eisagei to nomosxedio, poios qa tis efarmosei; Dhladh, h 15melhs Organwtikh Epitroph h to armodio Ypoyrgeio Periballontos Xwrotajias kai Dhmosiwn Ergwn;

REPPAS: Ta osa exoyn sxesh me th diorganwsh twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn, qa ta parakoloyqei se kaqhmerinh bash ayth h 15melhs Organwtikh Epitroph, h opoia qa leitoyrgei me th morfh Anwnymhs Etairias. Bebaiws, qa yparxei synergasia me toys armodioys kratikoys foreis, Ypoyrgeia kai Organismoys, kata periptwsh, prokeimenoy na antimetwpistoyn epi meroys qemata. Thn eyqynh gia ola ayta qa thn exei h 15melhs Organwtikh Epitroph, ayth h Anwnymh Etairia h opoia qa lambanei kai tis apofaseis. Kai parakalw poly na eimaste, s' aythn thn eqnikoy xarakthra prospaqeia, kalopistoi, plhroforhmenoi gia ta qemata, ta opoia einai qemata poly shmantika - to anagnwrizw ayto- wste na mh dhmioyrgoyme mia entypwsh oti ayth h prospaqeia, sto jekinhma ths kiolas, eite exei apotyxei, eite exei amayrwqei apo diadikasies kai epiloges oi opoies adikoyn. Kai den adikoyn mono toys foreis poy asxolhqhkan me th sygkrothsh aytwn twn organwn, alla adikoyn kai thn alhqeia, adikoyn kai th logikh kai den antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta oi isxyrismoi aytoi, poy polles fores diatypwnontai.

MOYRTZHS: Qa ejakoloyqhsete na prokatabaletai to 15 % ths ajias toy ergoy stoys ergolaboys me thn ypografh ths symbashs, opws isxyei shmera gia ta dhmosia erga, poy dhmioyrgei thn kaxypocia -gia na mhn pw ypocia- gia diaqesh "mizas" se politika h alla proswpa;

REPPAS: Anafereste sta qemata twn kataskeywn gia thn Olympiada;

MOYRTZHS: Milaw gia thn Aqhna.

REPPAS: Gia ola ayta ta qemata, parakalw poly, na anamenoyme th syzhthsh gia to nomosxedio. Qa anaptyxqei ekei o dialogos, qa akoystoyn oles oi apoceis. Kai nomizw oti einai poly prowro kai adiko qa' lega, na kanoyme emeis mia prosyzhthsh gia ena qema to opoio den exei kan eisaxqei sth Boylh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Allo ta kommata kai allo oi dhmosiografoi. Den exoyme kamia sxesh emeis.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh me thn katartish toy nomosxedioy qetei sth diaqesh twn kommatwn kai ths koinhs gnwmhs, thn protash ths. Epi ths protasews ayths qa proklhqei syzhthsh kai eimaste etoimoi na apodextoyme opoies idees h eishghseis ginontai, an kriqei oti einai qetikes kai wfelimes, prokeimenoy na beltiwsoyme to keimeno toy nomosxedioy akomh perissotero.

KACAMPELHS: Hqela na rwthsw diadikastika: Prwton, an exete kati neotero gia to onoma toy Dieyqynontos Symboyloy, dhladh pote akribws qa to anakoinwsete. Kai deyteron, an thn epilogh qa thn kanei o idios o Prwqypoyrgos, opws katalabainoyme. Einai swsto ayto;

REPPAS: H apanthsh sto prwto einai: oxi. H apanthsh sto deytero einai: nai.

MIXAHL: Gia to PASOK kai kat' epektash gia thn Kybernhsh isxyei h apofash poy exete labei sth Synodo ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs toy Nayplioy, oti -opws eipe o Prwqypoyrgos- oi Dhmotikes Ekloges exoyn politiko xarakthra kai qa epidokimastei h qa apodokimastei h kybernhtikh politikh;

REPPAS: Exoyme pei, kat' epanalhch, poia einai h qesh ths Kybernhshs gi ayto to qema. H apofash ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs sto Nayplio anaferetai, akribws, sthn anagkh oi topikes koinwnies, oi polites se diafores perioxes ths xwras na epilejoyn tis dhmotikes paratajeis kai toys ypochfioys, me bash tis programmatikes protaseis toys, prokeimenoy na antimetwpistoyn kai na lyqoyn ta qemata poy apasxoloyn kaqe perioxh. To Ektelestiko Grafeio -kai qa moy epitrecete ayth th mikrh parekklish, na mpw se kommatika qemata- anakoinwse thn yposthrijh poy parexei se prwtoboylies poy exoyn analhfqei apo sygkekrimenoys paragontes, poy exoyn dhlwsei endiaferon na teqoyn ws ypochfioi epikefalhs syndyasmwn, stis epomenes Dhmotikes Ekloges, sthn Aqhna, th Qessalonikh kai ston Peiraia. Einai qema, loipon, twn chfoforwn kaqe perioxhs na epilejoyn toys ikanoteroys, me bash tis programmatikes protaseis twn ypochfiwn.

MIXAHL: Efoson einai etsi opws ta lete, kyrie Ypoyrge, tote pws ejhgeitai o k. Pagkalos shmera na exei kai na ekfrazei dhmosiws ta osa eipe kai sto Ektelestiko Grafeio, dhladh, oti efoson oi ekloges exoyn nohma politiko, qa eprepe na shmatodotoyn to kommatiko PASOK, o ypochfios sthn Aqhna, ton Peiraia kai th Qessalonikh kai oxi ena proswpo to opoio den shmatodotei ayton ton xwro.

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos anaferqhke sthn protash poy ekane kai sto Ektelestiko Grafeio me thn idiothta toy meloys toy. Mhn perimenete na syzhthsoyme edw qemata poy aforoyn th leitoyrgia enos kommatikoy organoy. Sas eipa poia einai h genikh qesh gia ton xarakthra twn dhmotikwn eklogwn. S' ayto to qema na meinoyme. Den exei kamia sxesh h apoch poy kaqenas ekfrazei sto plaisio twn ypoxrewsewn toy ws melos, ws stelexos enos kommatos. Einai allo to ena, allo to allo.

MIXAHL: Einai o tritos th tajei Ypoyrgos, an den kanw laqos, me bash to Organogramma ths Kybernhshs kai ekfrazei mia diaforetikh apoch.

REPPAS: Sas eipe thn apoch, thn opoia ejefrase sto Ektelestiko Grafeio. Den sas eipe oti ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn eishgeitai aytoy toy eidoys thn epilogh. Ayto to dieykrinise kai nomizw oti ki eseis prepei na to dexqeite kai na mhn fernete gia syzhthsh edw ena qema poy afora kommatikh leitoyrgia.

MIXAHL: Dhmosiws den to eipe o k. Pagkalos;

REPPAS: Dhmosiws. Giati ayto einai kako; Den to eipe, omws, ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn. Kai ayto to gnwrizete poly kala.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dixasmenh proswpikothta einai o k. Pagkalos. Alla leei apo dw alla leei apo kei; Einai enas Ypoyrgos, einai melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy, den mporeite na lete oti to eipe etsi ekei, to eipe etsi alliws.

REPPAS: Kyrie Stamatopoyle, epeidh peran olwn hmwn, eseis poy kataskeyasate thn erwthsh, gnwrizete kai poio einai to nohma ths kai emeis to antilhfqhkame. Mhn proxwreite, parakalw, toso eykola se tetoia symperasmata, giati o k. Pagkalos einai Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn kai me poly epityxh tropo askei ta kaqhkonta toy. Einai melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy kai symballei sthn apotelesmatikh leitoyrgia aytoy toy kaqodhghtikoy organoy toy PASOK.

MOSXOBAS: Exete ypoch sas ti symperasmata ebgale o Prwqypoyrgos apo th shmerinh episkech toy sto Laiko Nosokomeio;

REPPAS: Einai sto plaisio twn episkecewn toy Prwqypoyrgoy se koinwnikoys kai epaggelmatikoys xwroys, prokeimenoy, apo prwto xeri, na gnwrisei pws akribws exoyn ta qemata, poia problhmata yparxoyn sth leitoyrgia aytwn twn Organismwn toy Dhmosioy. H qesh toy Prwqypoyrgoy sas einai gnwsth. Prepei na enteinoyme thn prospaqeia mas, wste ta mexri twra qetika apotelesmata poy exoyme apo thn parembash mas se diaforoys Organismoys toy Dhmosioy, na ginoyn akomh perissotera, akomh pio shmantika, wste kapoia stigmh na pacoyn na yparxoyn problhmata. Ayth einai h prospaqeia poy kanoyme.

MOSXOBAS: Ta symperasmata poia einai; Htan ikanopoihtika;

REPPAS: Ta symperasmata htan ayta poy sas eipa. O Prwqypoyrgos -sas eipa se anypopth stigmh, apantwntas se sxetikh erwthsh- pote den menei ikanopoihmenos. Oso yparxoyn problhmata h Kybernhsh mas pote den einai ikanopoihmenh. Kai ena problhma otan yparxei, exoyme ypoxrewsh na to antimetwpisoyme kai na to lysoyme. Ti na kanoyme! Exoyme qesei tetoioys stoxoys, wste na mhn arkoymeqa sthn epiteyjh kapoiwn epimeroys programmatikwn epidiwjewn mas. Qeloyme na efarmosoyme to synolo toy Programmatos mas. Ayto shmainei oti den qa prepei na yparxoyn problhmata. Se mia anqrwpinh koinwnia, ayto den einai katorqwto. En pash periptwsei, ayta einai ta stantar ta opoia exoyme qesei.

KIAOS: Pote qa ferei h Kybernhsh sth Boylh, to nomo me ton opoio qa tropopoiei ton eklogiko nomo, kata th dhlwsh sthn Epitroph gia to Syntagma, toy Ypoyrgoy Dikaiosynhs k. Giannopoyloy;

REPPAS: Den antimetwpizei tetoio qema h Kybernhsh.

KIAOS: O k. Giannopoylos, ean plhroforhqhkate eipe: Prwton, "einai adikos o shmerinos nomos" kai deyteron, "qa ton allajoyme".

REPPAS: O k. Giannopoylos ws politikos, alla kai egkritos nomikos eipe tis apoceis toy gi' ayto to qema. Allwste, h syzhthsh poy ginetai sto plaisio ths Anaqewrhshs diatajewn toy Syntagmatos, epiballei se oloys na lene tis apoceis toys. Yparxei enas ploysios problhmatismos. Den fantazomai na qelete na astynomeysoyme ton problhmatismo, o opoios anaptyssetai. Einai gonimh kai paragwgikh h syzhthsh poy ginetai.

KIAOS: O k. Giannopoylos eipe oti "qa ton allajoyme". Den einai apoch, einai apofash, poy metaferei.

REPPAS: Lew oti den einai etsi.

KIAOS: Dhladh apantate ston k. Giannopoylo twra;

REPPAS: Apantw se esas, eseis qesate thn erwthsh.

KIAOS: Efoson o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs leei "qa ton allajoyme", den einai apoch proswpikh, einai apofash, profanws, dioti me ayton ton tropo ekferei thn apoch ws melos ths Kybernhsews. Ara odhgoymai sthn erwthsh, pote qa ton allajete;

REPPAS: Ayth einai h ermhneia poy dinete eseis. Den einai ayto to nohma twn oswn eipe o k. Giannopoylos. Tetoio qema den apasxolei thn Kybernhsh.

SOYGLERHS: O k. Giannopoylos, mhpws exei syzhthsei me ton armodio Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs k. Papadopoylo, gia kapoia allagh kai den to gnwrizete;

REPPAS: Apanthsa kai epanalambanw oti den antimetwpizei tetoio qema h Kybernhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Exoyn jeshkwqei oi pantes, ap oti blepete kai diabazete. Ti qa kanei h Kybernhsh; Prokeitai na dexqei na allajei orismena forologika metra, ta opoia qa ta parei pisw;

REPPAS: H syzhthsh gia to Forologiko Nomosxedio, dinei thn eykairia se ola ta kommata na poyn tis apoceis toys. Gnwrizete poly kala oti, gia to sygkekrimeno qema, exei kanei sxetikes dhlwseis o armodios Ypoyrgos. H prospaqeia thn opoia kanoyme apoblepei sthn antimetwpish problhmatwn epixeirhsewn toy Dhmosioy, oi opoies einai zhmiogones kai me th leitoyrgia toys epibarynoyn ypermetra ton kratiko proypologismo kai ara to koinwniko synolo. Kai oloi prepei, proseggizontas ta problhmata toys, na proteinoyme ryqmiseis. Exw th gnwmh, loipon, oti h prwtoboylia ths Kybernhshs kineitai sth swsth kateyqynsh. Epeidh, malista, to Forologiko Nomosxedio, throymenwn twn analogiwn kai me bash ta osa syzhthsame kai apofasisame, kata th syzhthsh toy Proypologismoy, metajy twn allwn, diapneetai kai apo ena aisqhma koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs, an yparxoyn kai alles apoceis qa tis akoysoyme. Emeis, omws, paramenoyme staqeroi sth epilogh poy exoyme kanei. Qewroyme oti einai h swsth epilogh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den qa allajei tipota sto Forologiko Nomosxedio;

REPPAS: To Forologiko Nomosxedio, oson afora toys foroys, gnwrizete poly kala oti einai parakoloyqhma toy Proypologismoy. Ola ayta ta qemata ta exoyme syzhthsei sto plaisio ths syzhthshs gia ton Proypologismo toy kratoys. Apo kei kai pera, epimeroys ryqmiseis, san ayth sthn opoia anafereste gia toys genikoys kanonismoys proswpikoy se orismenes zhmiogones epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy, epixeirhseis poy paroysiazoyn ychla elleimmata, poy exoyn xreh ekatontadwn dis draxmwn, einai ena qema to opoio mas apasxolhse. Exoyme diatypwsei sygkekrimenh protash. Pisteyoyme oti ayth h protash qa ginei dekth.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Panta htan zhmiogones aytes oi epixeirhseis. Kamia Kybernhsh den phge na katarghsei tis syllogikes symbaseis.

REPPAS: Den katargoyntai oi syllogikes symbaseis. Kapoies epixeirhseis toy Dhmosioy, einai pragmati zhmiogones. Den mporoyme, loipon, menontas adiaforoi, na epitrecoyme na synexisoyn na einai zhmiogones. Den qa prepei na antimetwpisoyme ki ayto to problhma; Den fantazomai na exei kapoios diaforetikh apoch.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pisteyete oti, apo dw kai pera, den qa einai zhmiogones;

REPPAS: H prospaqeia poy exoyme kanei gia thn ejygiansh pollwn epixeirhsewn toy Dhmosioy exei apodwsei karpoys. Se polles epixeirhseis ta pragmata einai poly kalytera apo thn katastash, sthn opoia ta brhkame to 1993. Kai to gnwrizete ayto. Miloyn, allwste, ta ariqmhtika stoixeia. Einai katapelths ta ariqmhtika stoixeia ta opoia yparxoyn kai einai kai sth diaqesh sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oi ariqmoi eyhmeroyn.

REPPAS: Oi epixeirhseis einai poly kalytera ap' oti sto parelqon. Alla, epidiwkoyme na poreyqoyn akomh kalytera sto mellon. Den yparxei -pisteyw- diafwnia se ayto.

Eyxaristw poly.


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