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Greek Government Press Briefing, 00-09-26

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 26 Septembrioy 2000

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

BIDALH: O k. Xrysanqakopoylos kateqese mia erwthsh sth Boylh, symfwna me thn opoia h EYP exei anaqesei to ergo twn ypoklopwn se israhlinh etairia. Leei kai alles leptomereies kai epanalambanei oti h EYP diathrei fakeloys toso politwn, oso kai politikwn. Exete kapoio sxolio;

REPPAS: Prwta apo ola, gnwrizete oti yparxei h Epitroph ths Boylhs, h opoia parembainei kai parakoloyqei ta qemata twn thlefwnikwn epikoinwniwn kai pantote, bebaiws, einai parwn kai dikastikos leitoyrgikos, otan syntrexei logos. Kata ta alla, den qa syzhthsoyme edw qemata ths EYP. O synadelfos qa labei apanthsh dia ths koinoboyleytikhs odoy. Den mporei ta qemata leitoyrgias ths EYP -to antilambaneste oloi ayto- na ginontai antikeimeno syzhthshs sto plaisio ths politikhs enhmerwshs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati, den mporoyme na enhmerwqoyme emeis edw;

REPPAS: Apanthsa. An nomizete, loipon, oti yparxei qema, qa anamenete thn apanthsh poy qa doqei dia ths koinoboyleytikhs odoy. Mexri tote, emeis den exoyme na sxoliasoyme otidhpote exei sxesh me th leitoyrgia ths EYP. Ayth einai mia qesh arxhs sthn opoia paramenoyme.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai allh fora, estalh epistolh sth Boylh kai apanthsate eseis edw.

REPPAS: Giati h epistolh ekeinh den aforoyse th leitoyrgia ths EYP kai epeidh hmoyn o armodios ypoyrgos. Nomizw oti eixa ayth thn armodiothta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati kalyptete thn EYP;

REPPAS: Giati dinete ayth thn ermhneia; Oloi prepei na periballoyme me empistosynh mia yphresia poy exei ena sygkekrimeno skopo. Kai en pash periptwsei, h leitoyrgia ths einai entagmenh sth synolikh leitoyrgia toy dhmokratikoy politeymatos sth xwra mas. Ayto einai safes. Prepei na diagracete apo to myalo sas ayta poy synebainan alles epoxes. Einai, omws, qesh arxhs na mh syzhtoyme dhmosia qemata ths EYP.

KAPPOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean oloklhrwqhke h synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Koymariano.

REPPAS: Den yparxei tetoia synanthsh. O Prwqypoyrgos proedreyei se syskech synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn gia qemata sxetika me thn ejelijh twn dhmosiwn ergwn sthn ellhnikh perifereia. O Sebasmiotatos Qessaliwtidos episkefqhke, logw filikwn sxesewn, ton epikefalhs toy grafeioy Typoy toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Pantagia. Ayth h episkech den exei kamia sxesh me ayto poy eseis ennohsate ws episkech ston Prwqypoyrgo kai synergasia mazi toy.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Shmerina dhmosieymata kanoyn logo gia metafora ths synedriashs toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy thn Pempth kai malista dinoyn thn ejhghsh oti ayto ginetai gia na einai parwn kai o k. Pagkalos. Ti akribws symbainei;

REPPAS: Ayta ta qemata ta qetete sto Kinhma kai sas apantoyn oi ypeyqynoi toy Kinhmatos. Pragmati, o k. Pagkalos symmetexei se mia synanthsh ypoyrgwn Politismoy sth Santorinh, h opoia htan programmatismenh, edw kai poly kairo, apo thn epoxh poy htan ypoyrgos Politismoy h ka Papazwh. Kriqhke, loipon, oti qa eprepe, enocei ths synedriashs ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs, h synedriash toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy na ginei me thn paroysia olwn twn melwn. Gi` ayto, akribws, egine ayth h xronikh metaqesh.

FILHS: An ektimate oti ta apotelesmata poy yparxoyn ayth th stigmh sth Gioygkoslabia eynooyn th staqerothta sthn perioxh;

REPPAS: Emeis den qa kanoyme sxolio gia apotelesmata, giati den gnwrizoyme poia einai ta telika. Qa anamenoyme thn anakoinwsh twn apotelesmatwn apo thn kentrikh eforeytikh epitroph. Gnwrizete, allwste, oti h kentrikh eforeytikh epitroph exei sth diaqesh ths arketes wres akomh, afoy mporei na anakoinwsei to teliko apotelesma entos 72 wrwn, meta thn oloklhrwsh ths eklogikhs diadikasias. Ayto to opoio, me thn eykairia ths erwthshs sas, mporw na pw einai oti prepei na eimaste cyxraimoi kai na deijoyme oloi ypeyqynothta kai aytosygkrathsh. Opws me omalo tropo eginan oi ekloges, to idio omala na oloklhrwqei h katametrhsh kai h anakoinwsh twn telikwn apotelesmatwn. O gioygkoslabikos laos exei ton teleytaio logo, ton diatypwse me thn chfo toy. Qa anamenoyme na doyme pws apotypwqhke se eklogika pososta h chfos toy gioygkoslabikoy laoy. Mexri tote, den exoyme na poyme tipote allo.

FILHS: Wstoso, oi ekproswpoi kai oi ypoyrgoi Ejwterikwn allwn eyrwpaikwn kybernhsewn kai toy Steht Ntipartment, exoyn proejoflhsei to apotelesma. Exete kapoio sxolio;

REPPAS: Emeis, epanalambanw, qewroyme pws prepei na eimaste poly prosextikoi, na deijoyme aytosygkrathsh kai cyxraimia, giati epiqymoyme h Gioygkoslabia, poy perase mia poly krisimh periodo, na bgei apo ayth thn krish me th symbolh olwn. Gia na mh fortisoyme perissotero thn atmosfaira, qa apofygoyme na kanoyme epiqetikoy xarakthra dhlwseis, giati ayto to opoio telikws metraei einai h gnwmh toy gioygkoslabikoy laoy. Einai qetiko to gegonos oti oles oi pleyres anagnwrisan thn omalothta me thn opoia diejhxqhsan oi ekloges. Ayth h omalothta pisteyoyme oti qa xarakthrisei kai th diadikasia katametrhshs twn chfwn. Se ayto menoyme.

FILHS: Qa anagnwrisete to apotelesma;

REPPAS: Prin prokycei apotelesma me tropo poy einai apolyta dhmokratikos kai prin exoyme mia plhrh eikona gia to pws eginan oi ekloges kai h katametrhsh twn chfwn, mhn perimenete na kanoyme opoiodhpote sxolio.

FILHS: Ayth th stigmh exoyme to dedomeno oti oi dyo antipaloi diekdikoyn, o kaqenas gia ton eayto toy, th nikh. H kentrikh eforeytikh epitroph kleinei yper ekeinoy poy thn exei diorisei. Ti perimenete, akribws, gia na exete gnwmh gia ta apotelesmata;

REPPAS: Perimenoyme thn anakoinwsh ths kentrikhs eforeytikhs epitrophs. Xwris na exoyme th dikh ths qesh, pws qelete na kanoyme opoiodhpote sxolio! Aytoys toys opoioys, kata kapoio tropo, kathgoreite giati pairnoyn qesh, qelete na toys mimhqoyme. Kaleite, dhladh, thn ellhnikh kybernhsh na mimhqei ekeinoys poy exoyn parei qesh kai toys opoioys ``kathgoreite'' oti parembainoyn, enw einai se ejelijh h diadikasia katametrhshs. Pisteyoyme oti prepei na deijoyme aytosygkrathsh. Mh mas kaleite, loipon, na topoqethqoyme epi toy qematos aytoy twra. Den einai h stigmh.

FILHS: Peran toy qematos twn apotelesmatwn, exete na kanete kapoio politiko sxolio gia tis ekloges;

REPPAS: Einai poly qetiko oti oles oi dynameis anagnwrizoyn pws oi eklogikes diadikasies eginan me omalo kai dhmokratiko tropo, pragma to opoio deixnei oti o gioygkoslabikos laos chfise anephreastos, prokeimenoy na epilejei thn hgesia toy.

KOYIN: H aytosygkrathsh kai h cyxraimia poy eipate, poy kollaei; Poios prepei na deijei aytosygkrathsh;

REPPAS: Oloi mas. Kai emeis ws kybernhsh, epideiknyoyme mia tetoia stash, h opoia xarakthrizetai apo cyxraimia kai aytosygkrathsh, giati den qeloyme na dhmioyrghsoyme problhmata. Qeloyme na bohqhsoyme th Gioygkoslabia na jeperasei thn krish sthn opoia exei perielqei ta teleytaia xronia.

MPOTWNHS: O k. Kwnstantopoylos, me dhlwseis toy, sas kathgorei oti fernete espeysmena ayto to nomosxedio sth Boylh, oti den qa ginei syzhthsh epi ths oysias kai zhtaei thn katarghsh toy ypoyrgeioy Typoy kai thn pleiochfia twn 3/5 poy problepei to nomosxedio.

REPPAS: To nomosxedio syzhteitai to apogeyma, sthn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs. Alloi lene oti to fernoyme grhgora, alloi me kaqysterhsh. H alhqeia einai oti h anabaqmish toy ESR apotelei proeklogikh ejaggelia ths kybernhshs mas. Emeis -opws eipa kai stoys radiothleoptikoys syntaktes, alla kai se sas syzhtwntas sxetika qemata- apo thn prwth stigmh meta tis ekloges anakoinwsame ena xronodiagramma eji mhnwn, entos toy opoioy prepei na exoyme oloklhrwsei mia desmh drasewn. Metajy aytwn, poly shmantikh, isws h pio shmantikh, einai h katartish kai kataqesh toy nomosxedioy gia thn plhrh anejarthtopoihsh toy ESR. Ayto kanoyme twra. Ola ta alla epimeroys qemata, qa ta syzhthsoyme. Arkoymai na pw oti oi kritikes, oi aitiaseis poy diatypwnontai einai xwris periexomeno kai antikrisma. Deixnoyn oti kapoioi den qeloyn na syzhthsoyme epi ths oysias tis ryqmiseis aytes, giati epiqymoyn to ESR na einai diakommatiko organo kai oxi mia pragmatika anejarthth arxh. Kai ayth einai h megalh diafwnia mas. Ola ta alla poy legontai se radiofwnikoys staqmoys kai se alla Mesa Enhmerwshs, apo politikoys paragontes, den qa ta sxoliasw twra. Qa ta sxoliasw ``enwpios enwpiw'' sto plaisio twn syzhthsewn sth Boylh. Kai tote, para polloi qa niwsoyn megalh stenaxwria, giati den einai dynato na einai ekteqeimenoi me tis epiloges kai tis prajeis toys kai na paristanoyn, ayth thn wra, ton kathgoro kai ton timhth, enw qa eprepe na apologoyntai.

MOYRTZHS: Kai o k. Karamanlhs, askwntas kritikh sto nomosxedio gia to ESR, apokalese thn kybernhsh ``megalo adelfo''. Jerete poy parapempei. Qa hqela ena sxolio.

REPPAS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio, giati ayth h fraseologia ekfeygei ths politikhs antiparaqeshs. Emeis eimaste parontes me tis protaseis kai to programma mas. To sygkekrimeno nomosxedio den einai tipota allo, para h apodeijh aytoy poy lew. An h N.D. exei protaseis gia sygkekrimena qemata, kalo einai na tis qesei ypoch mas. Qymizw oti, otan emeis chfisame to N/2644 gia th radiothleoptikh syndromhtikh yphresia, h N.D. apoxwrhse apo th Boylh. Kai ayto, eite giati den eixe qeseis kai qa fainotan h gymnia ths an emene sth Boylh kai synexizotan h syzhthsh me th symmetoxh ths, eite giati den hqele, isws, na parei kapoia qesh, epeidh ta symferonta poy sygkroysthkan den htan amelhtea. Emeis kaname mia tomh. To idio kanoyme kai twra. Kai kalw oloys na syzhthsoyme epi ths oysias. H N.D., se teleytaia analysh, giati exw milhsei kat` epanalhch gia to bio kai thn politeia ths, den einai dynato na mila me ayto ton tropo. H N.D., ws kybernhsh, dia toy armodioy ypoyrgoy k. Ebert -sas eipa kai se allh eykairia- alloiwse to xarakthra toy ESR. Ejedwse ypoyrgikh apofash me thn opoia allaje th synqesh toy ESR kai, meta apo enamish xrono, hrqe sth Boylh kai chfise nomo gia na katoxyrwsei thn ypoyrgikh apofash. To Symboylio Epikrateias ekrine paranomh thn apofash ayth kai antisyntagmatiko to sxetiko nomo. Oi apofaseis toy ESR, gia olh ekeinh thn periodo, htan akyres. Ayta einai ta pepragmena ths N.D., h opoia shmera mas kathgorei kiolas. Epeidh polla pragmata se ayto ton topo ginontai etsi, wste na dhmioyrgeitai mia lanqasmenh entypwsh, emeis den qeloyme oyte efhmeroys entypwsiasmoys, oyte paraplanhsh. Kai gi` ayto, akribws, menoyme stis protaseis mas, oi opoies einai tekmhriwmenes, einai plhreis. Exoyme programma gia ola ta qemata -kai gia to sygkekrimeno- kai epi twn protasewn mas kaloyme kai tis alles dynameis na syzhthsoyme. Ayto exei shmasia, giati ayto apaitei apo mas o laos.

KAPPOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, an ws proistamenos ypoyrgos exete ypoch sas to gegonos oti sth NET, ayth th stigmh, yphrxan kapoies ekatontades ypallhlwn symbasioyxwn poy htan aplhrwtoi. Pws leitoyrgei to kratos ws ergodoths se ayth thn periptwsh;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti sthn ERT yphretoyn symbasioyxoi kai oti ananewnontai oi symbaseis toys, symfwna me tis epiloges ths dioikhshs. Emeis, apo th dikh mas pleyra ws ypoyrgeio, exoyme kanei oles tis aparaithtes prajeis. Exoyme eishghqei, dhladh, sthn armodia Epitroph ths kybernhshs, thn ananewsh kai thn ejasfalish toy kondylioy poy qa kalycei aytes tis dapanes. Giati, peri aytoy prokeitai. Thn epilogh twn stelexwn thn kanei h idia h dioikhsh ths ERT. Emeis miloyme gia to poso, to opoio qa dwsei th dynatothta sthn ERT na plhrwsei toys ergazomenoys se aythn. H allagh toy systhmatos -kai thn apofasisame prosfata sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, syzhtwntas gia qemata dhmosias dioikhshs- exei odhghsei se kaqysterhsh, gia thn opoia den eyqynomaste emeis ws ypoyrgeio. Asfalws, to qema ayto antimetwpizetai kai qa lyqei entos twn hmerwn.

FILHS: Dyo diaprepeis Syntagmatologoi, o k. Alibizatos, xqes sta ``NEA'' me arqro toy kai pro oligoy o k. Kasimaths milwntas se ekdhlwsh ths ESHEA, diapistwsan mia anakoloyqia dikh sas. Oti enw h Boylh omofwna symfwnhse na antexei mia diadikasia xwris na paremballetai sto ergo ths kybernhshs ekeinh h diadikasia gia thn anadeijh twn melwn twn Anejarthtwn Arxwn, opws einai kai to ESR, eseis thn epomenh speysate na kataqesete ena nomosxedio, poy alloiwnei thn omofwnh diadikasia poy eixe epiteyxqei kata th syzhthsh ths syntagmatikhs anaqewrhshs. To erwthma einai: Ean qa epimeinete na chfistei o nomos prin chfistei h syntagmatikh anaqewrhsh, dioti ayto otan gia ena qema yparxoyn dyo parallhles diadikasies, qa prokycei kai nomiko problhma.

REPPAS: Den exei kamia sxesh to ena me to allo. Oi diadikasies den einai parallhles, etsi wste na dhmioyrgeitai emplokh, epeidh akribws prowqoyme to nomosxedio gia to ESR. Poyqena, sto plaisio twn syzhthsewn gia thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos, den symfwnhqhke -giati den syzhthqhke kan- qema mh emplokhs ths kybernhshs me opoiondhpote tropo, oson afora th sygkrothsh toy ESR. To qema poy teqhke -kai sto antistoixo arqro qa qespistei h sxetikh diatajh- einai ena kai mono: To ESR anagoreyetai se Anejarthth Arxh kai katoxyrwnetai syntagmatika. Ayto ginetai kai me to nomosxedio. Anti loipon, na erqei nomos ek twn ysterwn na ryqmisei thn problech toy Syntagmatos, o nomos -kai ayto deixnei oti eimaste apo kairo etoimoi kai den syromaste apo tis ejelijeis, giati ayto kapoioi qeloyn na yposthrijoyn- qa exei chfistei apo th Boylh kai einai sto pneyma twn opoiwn syzhthsewn ginontai h qa ginoyn kata thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos. Yparxei pragmati mia kritikh apo kapoies dynameis oti o Ypoyrgos einai aytos poy katartizei ton arxiko katalogo me diplasio ariqmo melwn, apo ton ariqmo twn melwn poy qa sygkrothsoyn to ESR. Katalogo, dhladh, me 18 atoma, se sxesh me ta ennea poy qa epilegoyn apo thn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs kai ta opoia qa sygkrothsoyn to ESR. Prepei na sas pw oti stis perissoteres xwres ths Eyrwphs, oi antistoixes arxes, poy den exoyn ayth thn aytonomia thn opoia prosdidoyme emeis twra me ayto to nomosxedio, diorizontai kat eyqeian apo thn kybernhsh h ton armodio Ypoyrgo. Edw sthn Ellada kapoioi qeloyn na kanoyme ekloges, na anadeiknyoyme kybernhsh, oxi gia na kyberna, alla gia na mhn kyberna! Na anadeiknyoyme kybernhsh kai meta na apofasizoyme oti den yparxei kybernhsh! Epeidh, omws kapoioi qewroyn oti qetw enan periorismo ws pros ta proswpa kyroys, metajy twn opoiwn qa klhqei na epilejei h armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs, eipa oti ayto einai ena qema poy to syzhtoyme.

Qa eqeta, omws, ena rhtoriko erwthma: Qa dexotan h Epitroph ths Boylhs me aytes tis pleiochfies na katartizei ton katalogo me diplasio ariqmo melwn kai egw apo ayton ton katalogo na epilegw kai na diorizw ta melh;

FILHS: Oxi eseis@

REPPAS: Ma, ekeinoi qa epilegoyn opoia melh qeloyn, opoies proswpikothtes. Qa epilejoyn, loipon, 18 proswpa kyroys apo thn ellhnikh koinwnia, poy qa einai fantazomai to ena kalytero apo to allo. Egw qa exw th dynatothta metajy aytwn na orisw toys ennea, poy qa sygkrothsoyn to ESR. To dexontai ayto; Na epibaloyn ekeinoi ton periorismo pros thn kybernhsh. Den to dexontai. Loipon, h prospaqeia poy ginetai -kai ayto qa apokalyfqei- einai na meinei to ESR diakommatiko organo. Na proteinoyn ta diafora kommata kai etsi apo thn pisw porta na epanalhfqei ekeino to fainomeno kata to opoio ta melh toy ESR den leitoyrghsan panta anephreasta kai anejarthta apo thn kommatikh proeleysh toys. Pisteyoyme oti ayto den synadei me to xarakthra mias Anejarthths Arxhs. Otan leme oti to ESR prepei na leitoyrghsei ws Anejarthth Arxh shmainei oti ta proswpa poy qa to stelexwsoyn na einai proswpa kyroys, ta opoia den exoyn kommatikes desmeyseis kai ejarthseis. Ayth einai h qesh mas kai se ayth thn kateyqynsh poreyomaste. Kai epanalambanw, deite thn eyrwpaikh empeiria. Poyqena, ma poyqena den sygkroteitai Symboylio Radiothleorashs xwris thn emplokh ths ektelestikhs ejoysias. Ayth thn emplokh ston elaxisto baqmo, h opoia periexetai sto nomosxedio poy exoyme kataqesei, emeis mporoyme na thn ejetasoyme kai na antimetwpisoyme to qema akoygontas alles protaseis. Giati ayto poy qeloyme einai na dhmioyrghsoyme mia pragmatika Anejarthth Arxh. Ola ta alla einai ek toy ponhroy, einai qewrhtikologies.

FILHS: Sto baqmo poy o k. Benizelos ekfrazei tis apoceis toy kai oi ypoloipoi eishghtes sthn Epitroph anaqewrhshs ekfrazoyn tis apoceis twn kommatwn toys, gnwrizoyme @exei dhmosieyqei stis efhmerides- oti symfwnhsan oloi, kata th syzhthsh toy arqroy 15, oti qemata poy aforoyn th sygkrothsh toy ESR, epeidh einai mia anejarthth dioikhtikh arxh, qa syzhthqoyn sto oikeio arqro toy Syntagmatos, alla oti symfwnhsan, epishs, pws oi anejarthtes arxes qa orizontai me pleiochfia 3/5 apo thn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs. Eseis problepete prwton th lista, h opoia allazei th fysh ayths ths omofwnhs symfwnias, sto plaisio ths syzhthshs gia to Syntagma kai deyteron, bazete kai tis metepeita, tis ypoloipes chfofories, oi opoies ftanoyn me sxetikh pleiochfia h Epitroph ths Boylhs na bgazei to ESR. Ayta den qelw na pw ean einai swsta h oxi, ayto einai mia allh kritikh. Ayto, omws, einai ejw apo th syzhthsh poy ginetai ayth th stigmh gia tis desmeyseis poy qa analaboyn ola ta kommata gia to Syntagma. Kai erwtw: Otan to Syntagma, o qemeliwdhs nomos toy kratoys, problepei ayth th diatajh, eseis giati den perimenete na teleiwsei h syntagmatikh syzhthsh kai na enarmonisete th dikh sas ryqmish pros th syntagmatikh apofash;

REPPAS: Prwta ap ola, k. Filh, den problepetai epilogh me sxetikh pleiochfia. Kanete laqos. Deyteron, ta qemata poy aforoyn ta arqra poy syzhthqhkan, kata th syzhthsh gia thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos kai symfwnhqhkan, throyntai kai den qigontai kaqoloy apo tis diatajeis aytoy toy nomosxedioy. To ESR -kai problepetai se ayto to nomosxedio- analambanei ek meroys ths Politeias thn epopteia kai ton elegxo gia th leitoyrgia toy optikoakoystikoy tomea sthn patrida mas. To kratos, dhladh, to opoio anaferotan mexri twra sto Syntagma, anaqetei se ayth thn anejarthth arxh, sto ESR, ayto to rolo. Ayto anaferetai sto nomosxedio, einai kati poy exei apofasistei sthn Epitroph gia thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos. Triton, h sygkrothsh toy ESR den exei syzhthqei se leptomereies. Prepei na sas pw oti o tropos poy proteinoyme emeis einai o pleon dhmokratikos kai prowqhmenos, poly perissotero poy problepei to idio to 9meles symboylio toy ESR na eklegei me eswterikes diadikasies ton Proedro kai ton Antiproedro toy, na mhn orizontai, dhladh, apo opoiadhpote allh epitroph h apo thn kybernhsh. Kai epishs -kai ayto einai poly shmantiko- to ESR sthn Ellada qa leitoyrghsei ws Anejarthth Arxh se apolyto baqmo, giati pleon katargeitai o elegxos nomimothtas, o opoios yphrxe mexri twra. Ekei, loipon, poy yphrxe parembash ths Politeias yper toy dioikoymenoy, gia na yparxei prostasia enocei twn apofasewn toy ESR, erxetai twra to ypoyrgeio kai leei oti thn prostasia ayth qa thn anazhtei o dioikoymenos prosfeygontas sthn taktikh Dikaiosynh h sta dioikhtika Dikasthria. To ypoyrgeio, h kybernhsh den qa exei opoiadhpote emplokh sta ths leitoyrgias toy ESR kata thn ekdosh twn kyrwsewn kai twn apofasewn poy pairnei gia th xorhghsh adeiwn. Ayta einai safh. Apo kei kai pera, sas lew oti ta qemata gia ta opoia mia Epitroph apofasizei problepontai ston Kanonismo ths Boylhs. Kai o Kanonismos ths Boylhs problepei apolyth kai sxetikh pleiochfia. Emeis kanoyme mia yperbash kai efoson xreiazetai prepei na antimetwpistei to qema ths allaghs toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs sto shmeio ayto.

Telos, ean pragmatika prokycei mesa apo th syzhthsh -giati ayto einai to montelo poy exoyme syzhthsei kai proteinoyme gia th sygkrothsh olwn twn arxwn- kapoia allagh qeshs, tipota den empodizei sto nomosxedio ayto na ginoyn oi allages, an ginei nomos toy kratoys, sto shmeio ekeino poy oi probleceis, oi allages aytoy toy nomosxedioy, erxontai se antiqesh me ayto poy qa apofasistei. Tipota den einai dyskolo. Ola ayta antimetwpizontai. Parabiazontai anoiktes portes. Sas lew, omws, oti kapoioi den qeloyn na ginei syzhthsh epi ths oysias, epeidh akribws qeloyn me genikes kathgories na dhmioyrgoyn sygxysh kai na paraplanoyn thn koinh gnwmh. Ayth einai h prospaqeia poy kanoyn. An exoyn sygkekrimenh protash na th qesoyn kai na th syzhthsoyme. Ola ta alla einai ek toy ponhroy.

FILHS: Epishs, o Syntagmatologos k. Alibizatos sto arqro toy sta ``NEA'' leei oti an qeloyme na antimetwpistei to fainomeno ths diaplokhs prepei na yparxoyn kyrwseis. Kai h kyrwsh poy problepetai apo to nomo Benizeloy gia thn afairesh ths adeias, einai kyrwsh poy den exei megalh shmasia dioti den exoyn doqei adeies nomotypws, synepws den mporoyn na afaireqoyn kai adeies. Kai proteinei, oti h kyrwsh na einai h katarghsh ths symbashs me to Dhmosio, ean apodeixqei oti o epixeirhmatias parabainei ta asymbibasta poy kaqierwnei to Syntagma. Ti lete;

REPPAS: Ola ayta mas exoyn apasxolhsei. Apaitoyn poly prosektikh proseggish. Prepei na sas pw oti h ryqmish poy kanoyme, me aformh ayto to nomosxedio, den afora tetoia qemata. Ayta ta qemata ta xeirizetai to ESR, me bash tis elegktikes armodiothtes poy toy exoyn ekxwrhqei, hdh, apo to 1996. An diabasete to P.D. 310/1996 qa deite @opws allwste to anagnwrizoyn kai melh toy ESR sthn arqrografia toys- oti tis armodiothtes gia ton elegxo, oson afora th diafaneia, tis exei to ESR apo to 1996. Einai to P.D. poy exoyme katartisei emeis, se peisma oswn leei o k. Ebert kai alloi, oti den exoyme ekdwsei ta P.D. To qema einai, to ESR apo to 1996 mexri shmera exei askhsei aytes tis armodiothtes; Ayto einai qema toy ESR. O k. Alibizatos otan milaei gia to oti den exoyn doqei oi oristikes adeies se staqmoys, parablepei oti oi staqmoi me nomoys ths ellhnikhs Boylhs leitoyrgoyn nomimws, analambanoyn tis ypoxrewseis toys. Oson afora ta MME eqnikhs embeleias den gnwrizei isws oti exoyn adeies apo to 1993. Prepei na sas pw oti exw ekdwsei apofaseis gia na katabaloyn to antallagma xrhshs gia tis syxnothtes poy xrhsimopoioyn kai to ycos twn poswn einai peripoy 6 dis draxmes. Epi kybernhshs N.D. oi staqmoi leitoyrgoysan xwris to Dhmosio na eisprajei oyte draxmh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: To eisprajate;

REPPAS: Ena megalo meros exei eispraxqei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pote;

REPPAS: Sas tonizw oti ena megalo meros exei eispraxqei. Kanete terastio laqos. Qa breqeite pro ekplhjewn. Opoioi miloyn me ayton ton epipolaio tropo gia na dhmioyrgoyn entypwseis, sas lew kai pali qa breqoyn pro ekplhjewn. Gia na fanei ti exei kanei ayth h kybernhsh, ayto to ypoyrgeio kai ti ekanan alloi otan eixan ayth thn armodiothta.

FILHS: Den moy eipate gia tis symbaseis. To skepteste to qema ayto;

REPPAS: Den einai qema aytoy toy nomosxedioy.

FILHS: Giati den symfwneite;

REPPAS: Symfwnw kai yperqematizw. An to ESR epairne apofash na diakocei th leitoyrgia enos staqmoy mporoyse na to kanei. Emeis to exoyme kanei ws ypoyrgeio. To exoyme kanei gia staqmoys poy parabiasan th nomoqesia gia ta pneymatika dikaiwmata h ekanan parembaseis se syxnothtes ths Politikhs Aeroporias k.t.l. H ryqmish poy eixame kanei htan poly aysthrh. Odhgoyse se kleisimo twn kanaliwn. Paramones malista nomarxiakwn kai dhmotikwn eklogwn @kai ayto deixnei an exoyme politikh boylhsh h oxi- kleisame dekades staqmoys se olh thn ellhnikh perifereia. Mh milate, loipon, gia mas me ayto ton tropo. Politikh boylhsh yparxei kai fainetai sthn prajh. Oson afora to qema twn asymbibastwn poy qetete, mporei na to elegjei to ESR kai na epibalei kyrwseis. Kai kanali mporei na kleisei kai na epibalei kyrwseis.

FILHS: Qa katarghsei th symbash;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti to qema ayto mporei na antimetwpistei me thn ekdosh toy pistopoihtikoy diafaneias. Prokeimenoy na katartistei mia symbash problepetai pali sto P.D. 310/1996 -metajy twn allwn armodiothtwn, poy einai qema toy ESR an tis askhse h oxi aytes tis armodiothtes- kai h leitoyrgia enos Mhtrwoy, opoy sto Mhtrwo ayto kataxwrizontai oi metoxoi olwn twn epixeirhsewn poy drasthriopoioyntai ston eyrytero radiothleoptiko tomea. Oxi mono sta MME, alla kai se diafhmistikes epixeirhseis kai se etaireies metrhsewn ths koinhs gnwmhs k.t.l. Gia na katartisei opoiosdhpote symbash me to Dhmosio prepei na exei ejasfalisei apo to Tmhma Elegxoy-Diafaneias to analogo pistopoihtiko poy deixnei oti den exei sxesh me MME.

FILHS: O nomos den to problepei ayto, ayto einai to erwthma.

REPPAS: To oti den leitoyrghse ayto to tmhma mexri twra, ofeiletai se sygkekrimenoys logoys poy toys gnwrizete. Me thn idrysh toy tmhmatos, jekinhsa tis diadikasies gia thn proslhch episthmonwn poy qa to stelexwnan. Parenebh to ASEP kai eixame mia ``kaqysterhsh'' dyo kai pleon xronwn, mexri na oloklhrwqei ayth h diadikasia. Den einai dikh mas eyqynh. Otan miloyme gia tis anejarthtes arxes, den mporei th mia na leme ``mhn parembainete sto ergo toys'' kai thn allh na leme ``to ASEP kaqysterei, kante kati eseis''. Anejarthth arxh einai to ASEP. Kai to anagnwrizoyn oloi ayto kai sebomaste to moxqo twn anqrwpwn poy to stelexwnoyn. Ayth th ryqmish, etsi opws th qetete, me ayth th safh diatypwsh, o N/2328 den thn problepei. Ara, loipon, twra me dikaiwnete. Giati egw milw polles fores gia to isxyon plaisio kai ayto ginetai antikeimeno eirwneias apo polloys poy nomizoyn oti lew pragmata poy einai ektos pragmatikothtas. Ayto, omws, einai to isxyon plaisio. Apo ekei kai pera, symfwnw mazi sas oti qa prepei se mia nea nomoqetikh prwtoboylia na antimetwpistoyn kai ayta, opws kaname gia ta syndromhtika kanalia me to N.2644/98.

FILHS: Twra.

REPPAS: Ayta den perilambanontai sto Syntagma. Den einai dynaton, tetoies ryqmiseis poy exoyn leptomereiako xarakthra, na perilambanontai sto Syntagma. Molis oloklhrwqei h diadikasia ths anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos, akoloyqei nomos o opoios problepei@

STAMATOPOYLOS: Paei meta@

REPPAS: Prohgoymenws, o k. Filhs, elege na mhn chfisoyme twra to nomosxedio gia to ESR, alla meta thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos. To nomosxedio gia to opoio syzhtoyme twra, qelete na to chfisoyme twra, na mhn perimenoyme thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos. Prepei, loipon, h Boylh na chfisei th sygkekrimenh diatajh. Ean h Boylh apofasisei oti qa ekdoqei nomos poy qa orizei pws qa efarmostoyn ola ayta poy problepontai stis diatajeis toy Syntagmatos, qa proxwrhsoyme sthn katartish kai chfish sxetikoy nomosxedioy. Gi` ayto, loipon, mh biazeste. Giati para polloi askoyn kritikh. Den qelw na pisteyw oti to kanoyn pantote kakopista. Isws, na mhn jeroyn ta qemata. Alla, dhmioyrgeitai ena apotelesma, to opoio adikei kai thn prospaqeia ths kybernhshs kai th boylhsh ths. Emeis exoyme qeseis, exoyme programma. Mporoyme na milhsoyme wres gi` ayta ta qemata, na doyme ti kaname emeis, ti ekanan oi alloi kai apo ekei kai pera, bgazete ta symperasmata sas.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Se periptwsh poy h Ekklhsia pagwsei th syllogh ypografwn, h kybernhsh einai diateqeimenh na stamathsei th diadikasia ekdoshs newn taytothtwn, mexri thn ekdosh ths apofashs toy Symboylioy ths Epikrateias sto opoio exei ginei sxetikh prosfygh. Kai akomh, an to qema ayto syzhthqhke sth synanthsh poy eixan to prwi o k. Pantagias me ton Mhtropolith Qessaliwtidos;

REPPAS: Dhmioyrgoyntai paranohseis. Den egine kamia syzhthsh poy na exei sxesh me qemata poy aforoyn thn ekdosh twn newn taytothtwn. Mh dinete ena tetoio periexomeno, tetoio xarakthra se ayth th filikh episkech. Qelw na eimai kathgorhmatikos kai safhs. O Sebasmiotatos episkefqhke, xqes, kai ton ypoyrgo Paideias. Den shmainei kati ayto. Ayto to opoio sas lew einai toyto: Emeis exoyme parei thn telikh apofash mas. Mexri telos toy mhna, qa exoyme mia megalh partida aytwn twn neoy typoy taytothtwn, prokeimenoy na doqoyn se aytoys poy zhtoyn. Apo thn erxomenh Deytera, opws exw plhroforhqei, qa paradoqei sthn armodia yphresia ena megalo tmhma apo ta nea entypa.

MPEKAS: Pws sxoliazete oti h hgesia ths Ekklhsias ths Elladas empodizei gia deyterh fora thn episkech toy Patriarxh Kwnstantinoypolews sthn Ellada;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw an kati tetoio antapokrinetai sthn pragmatikothta kai kata synepeia, den mporw na kanw opoiodhpote sxolio. O Patriarxhs einai mia proswpikothta me dieqnh aktinobolia. Ek meroys ths kybernhshs einai pantote eyprosdektos sthn Ellada. H paroysia toy qa einai megalh timh gia oloys mas.

KAPPOS: Den mporw na katalabw ti nohma exei mia filikh synanthsh toy Qessaliwtidos na ginetai se ena qesmoqethmeno xwro, opws einai to Megaro Majimoy.

REPPAS: Allh erwthsh;

KAPPOS: Se o,ti afora to gioygkoslabiko, qelw na rwthsw, an sas anhsyxei h stash ths Bretanias kai oi dhlwseis ajiwmatoyxoy toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn poy periexoyn ypainigmoys gia nea epembash kai an sas eyxaristei h paramonh toy amerikanikoy stoloy sthn Adriatikh,

REPPAS: Emeis epiqymoyme na oloklhrwqei me omalo tropo h katametrhsh twn chfwn kai na ekdoqei to teliko apotelesma, to opoio na einai adiamfisbhthto kai apodekto apo oloys. Ayto eyxomaste, ayto elpizoyme, ayto qeloyme: na aphxei akribws tis protimhseis toy gioygkoslabikoy laoy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qelw na rwthsw, an oi ypoyrgoi poy einai boyleytes kai xanoyn tis edres toys, qa parameinoyn stis qeseis toys.

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei se ayto. H synqesh ths kybernhshs paramenei ws exei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti den prokeitai na epiblhqoyn neoi foroi. Hdh, arxisan na anebainoyn polla. Hdh, mphke foros sta tsigara. Ayjhqhkan kata 50 draxmes. Ti lete gi` ayto;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti se orismenes yphresies oi ayjhseis twn timwn exoyn apofasistei edw kai kairo. Apo ekei kai pera, epeidh miloyme gia ta kaysima kai tis synepeies poy prokyptoyn apo thn ayjhsh ths timhs toys dieqnws, gnwrizete oti exoyme tis xamhloteres times.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qa akoloyqhsei kai allh ayjhsh ths forologias;

REPPAS: Kamia forologia den egine. H ayjhsh twn timwn sta tsigara poy anaferate, apofasisthke apo toys paragwgoys kai h kybernhsh den exei kamia anameijh. H forologikh politikh den allazei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ta eisithria anebhkan kata 33%. Phran oi ergazomenoi tetoia ayjhsh;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti oi dhmosioi Organismoi kai kyriws ta mesa mazikhs metaforas leitoyrgoyn se megalo baqmo me paqhtiko, epeidh exoyn mia koinwnikh apostolh. Kai ayto to exei apodexqei h kybernhsh, giati ta mesa mazikhs metaforas ta xrhsimopoioyn ergazomenoi, anqrwpoi xamhlwn eisodhmatwn.

BIDALH: Exoyn anoijei ta sxoleia kai shmera yparxoyn epwnymes kataggelies. Se ena xwrio sthn Hleia yparxei mono lykeiarxhs. Sta Krestaina apo toys 18 kaqhghtes poy problepontai, yparxoyn mono oktw.

REPPAS: Parakalw, to qema ayto afhste to stoys synadelfoys sas toy ekpaideytikoy reportaz.

Sas eyxaristw.


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