Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-09-28

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 28 Septembrioy 2006

Ariqmos Deltioy: 32188898

Ekdosh 1

Brf2809

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 28 Septembrioy 2006

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio stis 12.00, qa synanthqei sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton Arxiepiskopo Aqhnwn kai pashs Ellados, Makariwtato k. Xristodoylo, paroysia ths Ypoyrgoy Paideias k. Mariettas Giannakoy.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

IWANNOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, meta kai tis xqesines dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia, telika ti symbainei; Einai ``lagos'' o k.Soyflias h yparxei kapoia enoxlhsh dysareskeias sto Majimoy apo ta legomena toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oyte to ena, oyte to allo. Ekeina ta opoia eipe o k. Soyflias xqes, einai pragmata poy exei janapei kai sto parelqon, opws gnwrizete. Den einai h prwth fora poy dhmosiopoiei aytes tis apoceis. Eixa malista thn eykairia na milhsw shmera mazi toy, giati qymomoyn oti ta eixe janapei kai moy to epibebaiwse. Hdh apo to 1993 exei ekfrasei tetoies apoceis. Sas qymizw oti se orismena qemata, opws gia paradeigma sta zhthmata ths Syntagmatikhs Anaqewrhshs, xwris na einai h idia apoch, alla kontines apoceis exoyn ekfrastei hdh apo ton Prwqypoyrgo se sxesh me thn ayjhsh toy ariqmoy twn boyleytwn Epikrateias. Bebaiws, den einai to germaniko systhma. Den qa mpw se leptomereies gia to kaqena apo ta qemata, epitrecte moy mono na anarwthqw: Ta peri kommatismoy sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh- gia paradeigma to oti h Dhmosia Dioikhsh qa htan kalyterh aney kommatismoy- den einai mia pragmatikothta me thn opoia symfwnoyn oloi; Den einai kati to opoio exei pei kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos polles fores se omilies toy; Ayta. Kanena allo sxolio.

BLAXOS: Tote giati aisqanqhkate thn anagkh, afoy den diafwneite, na ton parete thlefwno;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati, opws eipa prohgoymenws, qymomoyn oti ta eixe janapei. Kai moy to epibebaiwse malista, moy eipe oti ta exei pei, hdh, apo to 1993-1994.

BLAXOS: Apo periergeia dhladh ton phrate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akribws.

BLAXOS: H synanthsh me ton k. Xristodoylo, ti skopo exei, poios th zhthse;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Thn teleytaia fora poy synanthqhkan, htan sto deipno poy akoloyqhse meta thn omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy sth DEQ kai tote syzhthsan gia mia synanthsh.

KAKALHS: Me ta peri kommatismoy, symfwneite me ton k. Soyflia, na ypoqesoyme oti symfwneite kai me thn protash toy gia katarghsh twn syndikalistikwn paratajewn sto Dhmosio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew oti o kommatismos sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh blaptei. Ayto to jeroyn oloi kai to lene oloi. O k. Soyflias den proteinei katarghsh twn syndikalistikwn organwsewn kai kaneis den proteinei katarghsh twn syndikalistikwn organwsewn. Gia na mhn pame makria, se ayth thn aiqoysa, poses fores sas exw pei oti oi syndikalistikes organwseis, kata thn apoch ths Neas Dhmokratias, ofeiloyn na einai akhdemoneytes kai akommatistes;

KAKALHS: Allo eipe o k. Soyflias. O k. Soyflias eipe oti prepei na katarghqoyn h DAKE kai oi alles paratajeis twn kommatwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

SIDERHS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai pepeismenos gia th sobarothta ths ``aylhs twn qaymatwn'' poy akoyei sto onoma Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Oikonomias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kyrie Xiwth exete to logo.

XIWTHS: Epanerxomai sto qema toy k. Soyflia. Qelw na rwthsw, eipate oti kai o Prwqypoyrgos eixe ekfrasei paromoies apoceis. Alla, an qymamai kala, h kybernhsh eixe dhlwsei oti den syzhta allagh toy eklogikoy nomoy sto plaisio ths Anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, eipa oti den proteinei to germaniko systhma. Exw mprosta moy thn omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy, ths Pempths 11 Maioy 2006, sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada gia th Syntagmatikh Anaqewrhsh. Yparxei sto site, mporeite na th breite poly eykola. Anaferei, metajy allwn, gia na mh sas koyrazw: Proteinetai lelogismenh ayjhsh toy ariqmoy twn boyleytwn poy eklegontai xwris stayro protimhshs, wste na dieykolynqei h eisodos sthn politikh ikanwn kai ajiwn politikwn poy gia diaforoys logoys einai dyskolo na apodyqoyn se proswpiko proeklogiko agwna. Ypenqymizw  synexizei o Prwqypoyrgos- sxetika oti apo to 1997, h Nea Dhmokratia exei kataqesei protash gia ayjhsh toy ariqmoy twn boyleytwn Epikrateias. Jerw oti sto qema yparxoyn diaforetikes apoceis. Antilhpto kai katanohto. Kai katalhgei: H proteinomenh omws ryqmish employtizei to dhmosio bio. Kai ayto to anagnwrizei twra pia, estw kai emmesa me tis xqesines anafores toy kai o arxhgos ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs. Mia hmera prin, o k. Papandreoy eixe kanei antistoixes dhlwseis.

XIWTHS: Se ayto akribws kai egw anaferomai. Oti o Prwqypoyrgos eixe proteinei mono ayjhsh twn boyleytwn Epikrateias. O k. Soyflias epanaferei mia pragmati palaia toy protash gia allagh toy eklogikoy nomoy kai efarmogh toy meiktoy systhmatos. Ayto poy qelw na rwthsw kai na aposafhnisete einai, ean o Prwqypoyrgos meleta kai alles allages toy eklogikoy nomoy, meta kai tis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia h an... ;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ekeino poy qelw na rwthsw, einai se sxesh me ton k. Soyflia, an kai qewrw, diafwnw dhladh me thn epishmansh sas. Oi dhlwseis opws metaferqhkan se emas, htan na katarghqoyn oi syndikalistikes organwseis, wste na apotrapei o kommatismos sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh. Alla, peran aytoy, qewrei h kybernhsh oti eyqynetai mono o kommatismos twn syndikalistikwn paratajewn gia th xronia paqogeneia sth Dhmosia Dioikhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, bebaia. Tosa kai tosa exoyme pei. Gia th grafeiokratia kaqe mera leme kai prospaqoyme na beltiwsoyme ta pragmata.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, alla epeidh doqhke idiaiterh emfash omws se ayth thn protash toy k. Soyflia kai genika prokalese aisqhsh, gi` ayto metaferqhke diaforetika, ermhneythke poikilotropws. Wstoso, monomerws omws, moy dinei thn entypwsh oti ftaiei mono o kommatismos twn syndikalistikwn paratajewn. Ayto einai poy den katalabainw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Afoy sas lew pws oxi. Giati sas dinei ayth thn entypwsh; Giati den me pisteyete;

MPOTSARAKOS: Einai stis proqeseis ths kybernhshs telika na parei kapoia prwtoboylia gia thn katarghsh twn kommatikwn paratajewn sta syndikalistika organa toy dhmosioy tomea;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw na yparxei ayth th stigmh kapoia tetoia prwtoboylia.

BLAXOS: Eseis, poion pisteyete, ton k. Pano Kammeno h ton k. Koyloyrh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean me rwtate gia to gnwsto qema, exei ejantlhqei. Exw kanei kai dhlwsh xqes, edw s` ayth thn aiqoysa.

KYRITSHS: Dyo erwthseis kyrie Ekproswpe: H mia einai sxetikh me thn anaqewrhsh, pros ta panw, toy AEP. Qelw na rwthsw, ean lambanei ypoch ths h kybernhsh kai ti exei na pei gia to endexomeno na xasei h xwra poroys apo to D' KPS, to opoio ejartatai fysika kai apo to AEP kata perifereia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se ligh wra, o k. Alogoskoyfhs dinei synenteyjh Typoy stoys syntaktes toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, opote qa apanthqoyn oles oi erwthseis ekei.

KYRITSHS: H deyterh erwthsh, exei na kanei me toys daskaloys. Xqes, o k. Aggeloy synanthqhke me antiproswpeia twn daskalwn, oi opoioi toy paredwsan ena xarti me ta aithmata toys. Hqela na rwthsw, giati toses hmeres etrwgan jylo, afoy htan toso aplo na pane kai na dwsoyn ena xarti ston k. Aggeloy; Treis fores eginan epeisodia me dakrygona, me traymatismoys...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na diafwnhsw me thn parathrhsh sas. Exw hdh topoqethqei sto qema. Den xreiazetai na epanelqw.

SIDERHS: Afoy ayjanei kata 25%, me toys gnwstoys tropoys, to AEP, giati den to ekane apo thn arxh kai esyre th xwra sthn peripeteia ths apografhs kai ths epithrhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Foboymai oti den gnwrizete to qema. En pash periptwsei, qa sas pw dyo  tria stoixeia gia na ta gnwrizete, giati epanalambanw oti o k. Alogoskoyfhs qa dwsei analytikh synenteyjh se ligh wra. Symfwna me thn Eurostat, kaqe xwra exei thn ypoxrewsh, ana pentaetia, na bazei sto trapezi jana toys deiktes. Na syzhta dhladh gia toys makrooikonomikoys deiktes, katopin ths sxetikhs ereynas poy prepei na ginetai. Na orizei to etos bashs panw sto opoio qa sthrixqei h opoia metrhsh apo ekeinh th stigmh kai sto mellon. Ayto, enw h xwra exei ypoxrewsh na to kanei ana pentaetia, synebh gia mia kai monh fora to 1994, me etos bashs to 1988. H ayjhsh tote toy AEP, epi kybernhsews PASOK, htan sto 20%. Megalo pososto kai tote. Den synebh jana. Emeis apo thn prwth stigmh poy giname kybernhsh, me tis syzhthseis poy eginan me thn Komision kai me th Eurostat, mas epishmanqhke oti prepei na jekinhsei ayth h diadikasia. Kai jekinhse h diadikasia apo thn ESYE, th Statistikh Yphresia. Yparxei syzhthsh, dialogos, synergasia me thn Eurostat kai qa katalhjoyn, opoy katalhjoyn, me ta texnika ayta zhthmata. Ekeino to opoio qelw na epishmanw einai to ejhs, pros arsh twn opoiwn parejhghsewn h lanqasmenwn sxoliwn: H ypoqesh toy elleimmatos den ephreazetai apo thn allagh ayth, dioti to metro to opoio xrhsimopoihqhke htan to metro poy xrhsimopoioyse kai h prohgoymenh kybernhsh kai to metro poy xrhsimopoioyse kai h Eurostat. Akomh kai an doyme me ta nea stoixeia toy AEP, to elleimma qa htan mikrotero kata mish monada h 0,7. Se kaqe periptwsh, pantws, htan panw apo 3%. Se kaqe periptwsh, eprepe na ginoyn ayta ta opoia eginan apo th shmerinh kybernhsh. Epishs, qelw na sas pw, kleinontas ayto to qema, oti th Deytera poy o k. Alogoskoyfhs qa paroysiasei ton proypologismo, qa ton paroysiasei epi th basei twn yfistamenwn stoixeiwn, giati  epanalambanw gia deyterh fora, ean den to ekana me to logo moy katanohto thn prwth- aytes einai oi syzhthseis poy ginontai metajy ths Statistikhs Yphresias kai twn texnikwn yphresiwn ths Eurostat, ews otoy katalhjoyn sta stoixeia. Den exoyn katalhjei akomh sta sygkekrimena stoixeia.

SIDERHS: Qa zhthsete na arqei h epithrhsh ean ginei apodekto, kati poy den (den akoygetai) hjera th diadikasia poy eipate, jeroyme oti h Ollandia exei kanei ws ena 7%, eseis zhtate 25% ayjhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw: Sto parelqon h monh fora poy oristhke to qema, htan to 1994 me etos bashs to 1988. Kai tote h ayjhsh htan sto 20% toy AEP. Se kaqe periptwsh, kineitai sthn idia logikh thn opoia exoyme anaferei apo thn prwth stigmh, oti dhladh, prepei ta stoixeia panw sta opoia sthrizomaste na einai kaqara stoixeia. Ayto qelei kai h Eurostat, ayto qelei kai kaqe swfrwn poliths.

SIDERHS: Ara, mphkame sthn epithrhsh, xwris sobara stoixeia. Ayto mas lete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Den katalabainw h den katalabainete, giati ayto poy sas ejhghsa molis twra, h den to akoysate, h den to shmeiwsate, h den qelete na to akoysete. Sas eipa -efqasa sto shmeio na sas pw- oti akomh kai me ta shmerina stoixeia, ta opoia den mporoyn na leitoyrghsoyn gia to parelqon, h meiwsh toy elleimmatos qa einai elaxista mikroterh. Se kaqe periptwsh, poly panw apo 3%

MPOTSARAKOS: Apo ayth thn anaprosarmogh kyrie Ekproswpe kai apo thn pleyra toy dhmosioy xreoys qa yparjei periptwsh na ejoikonomhqoyn kapoioi poroi poy shmera dinontai gia thn ejyphrethsh toy xreoys kai aytoi oi poroi poy qa ajiopoihqoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H oikonomia paramenei se mia dyskolh fash, se mia dyskolh periodo. Ws ek toytoy, den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

SPYRAKH: Exete plhroforhqei tis dhlwseis poy ekane o k. Pagkalos sto radiofwno ths NET;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Tis akoysa, erxomenos edw. Oxi apo ton idio ton k. Pagkalo, tis akoysa na metaferontai apo reporter.

SPYRAKH: Qelete na tis epanalabw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O,ti qelete. Den prokeitai na sxoliasw ton k. Pagkalo.

XIWTHS: Jerw oti den sxoliazete synhqws dhmoskophseis, alla nomizw oti qa sas balw se peirasmo, giati jerw oti tis parakoloyqeite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prospaqeiste na doyme ean qa to kataferete.

XIWTHS: Oi teleytaies dhmoskophseis, loipon, deixnoyn oti h maxh toylaxiston sthn ypernomarxia, poy egw qewrw ws thn pio politikh maxh, einai oysiastika xamenh gia th Nea Dhmokratia. H k. Fwfh Gennhmata emfanizetai staqera poly panw apo ton ypochfio ths Neas Dhmokratias. Sas problhmatizei ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na kanw dyo parathrhseis. Prwth kai shmantikoterh: H eklogikh maxh krinetai thn hmera twn eklogwn apo toys polites. Deyterh, opws gnwrizete kai opws eipate: Den sxoliazw dhmoskophseis. Den parembainw sth diadikasia, poly perissotero twn eklogwn topikhs kai nomarxiakhs Aytodioikhshs. Ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos ekeino to opoio exw pei -kai ayth einai kai h monadikh moy armodiothta kai moy dinetai h eykairia shmera na to epanalabw- einai h dhlwsh, poy ekana dhmosiws kai edw kai sth Boylh kai me thn opoia kalesa ola ta MME na bohqhsoyn sthn isotimh probolh twn ypochfiwn twn syndyasmwn stis ekloges toso sth nomarxiakh, oso kai thn topikh Aytodioikhsh. Qymizw oti prin apo liges hmeres h ypoqesh ayth, me prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs, egine kai nomos toy kratoys. Dhladh ek toy nomoy zhteitai pleon apo ola ta MME -kai idiaitera ta hlektronika MME- na proballoyn isotimws toys ypochfioys. Ayth einai kai paramenei h monadikh drasthriothta, ypoxrewsh thn opoia exw ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos.

Bebaiws, ws kommatiko stelexos exw apoceis, alla den einai o xwros gia na tis ekfrasw.

XIWTHS: Qelw, epishs, na rwthsw ean h kybernhsh exei gnwsh kai exei dwsei thn egkrish ths gia thn thleoptikh kampania poy etoimazei o k. Ntinopoylos. Qa qymaste asfalws oti stis prohgoymenes dhmotikes ekloges eixe ginei ena megalo zhthma gia to ean o k. Tzannetakos eixe xrhsimopoihsei ``gkriza'' diafhmish. To idio qa prajei kai o k. Ntinopoylos. Qelw na gnwrizw, prwton, ean h kybernhsh exei gnwsh ths thleoptikhs ayths kampanias kai deyteron, ean periexei ``gkriza'' stoixeia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws sas eipa molis twra, ayta einai qemata twn kommatwn. H kybernhsh den metexei sthn eklogikh diadikasia, para mono apo tis ypoxrewseis poy exei apo to Syntagma.

BLAXOS: Xqes, kalesate to PASOK na jekaqarisei ean ayto moirase to non paper gia th DEH. Alliws, eipate oti dhmioyrgoyntai alla erwthmatika. O k. Aqanasakhs dieceyse oti to dierreyse to PASOK. Ypociazomai oti ton pisteyete. Ean ton pisteyete, loipon, ti alla erwthmatika dhmioyrgoyntai apo ayth th diarroh toy non paper;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na kanw dyo parathrhseis kai se ayth thn erwthsh. Ontws eipa oti dhmioyrgoyntai alla erwthmata. Qa sas pw ti erwthmata ennow. H prwth parathrhsh, omws, exei na kanei me ta osa eipe o k. Aqanasakhs, legontas oti h Nea Dhmokratia, h kybernhsh, mas exei synhqisei se non paper. Ayto einai alhqes. H kybernhsh, h Nea Dhmokratia, exei ekdwsei polles fores non papers, ta opoia gnwrizoyn oi dhmosiografoi. Kai panw apo ola oi dhmosiografoi gnwrizoyn oti proerxontai apo th Nea Dhmokratia h apo thn kybernhsh. Ayth einai kai h ennoia enos non paper. Dhladh, oti oi plhrofories poy dinontai exoyn xarakthra hmiepishmo, oti oi dhmosiografoi mporei, sthn periptwsh poy erqei enwpion toys sth synexeia o ypofainomenos kai toys pei ``ma poy brhkate aytes tis eidhseis'', na toy deijoyn to non paper kai na toy poyn ``paroti parabiazw th dhmosiografikh deontologia, epeidh eseis parabiasate prwtos ayto poy isxyei metajy dhmosiografwn kai politikwn edw kai polla xronia, dhladh th dianomh non paper ofeiloyme na sas poyme oti eseis mas lete cemata''. Ayth thn ennoia exei to na einai gnwsth h phgh ekdoshs enos non paper. Ayto to lew ston k. Aqanasakh, oxi giati exei anagkh apo maqhmata. Ta jerei, aplws kanei pws den ta qymatai.

H deyterh parathrhsh einai oti molis proxqes, sto deltio eidhsewn toy staqmoy sas, o k. Pipergias, ligh wra afotoy kykloforhse ayto to kataptysto gramma -giati egw den to xarakthrizw non paper, eipame ti einai ekeino poy exei ta xarakthristika toy non paper- ayto to libelografhma htan se qesh na gnwrizei ola ta ``epixeirhmata'' poy perieixe. Einai pragmatika aporias ajion ena xarti non paper, kata ton k. Aqanasakh, na phgainei prwta sto grafeio toy k. Pipergia h alloy stelexoys toy PASOK kai meta sta dhmosiografika grafeia h phgainei taytoxronws; Giati oloi oi dhmosiografoi gnwrizete oti einai ena eggrafo to opoio diakinhqhke arga to apogeyma. Ayta einai ta basika erwthmata poy dhmioyrgoyntai apo ayth thn ypoqesh. Epanalambanw oti, xwris na aporriptw ayto poy eipe o k. Aqanasakhs -ean leei oti den to ebgale to PASOK, egw to pisteyw- as caxtoyn ligo metajy toys, mhpws to exei bgalei kanenas allos ekei mesa.

SPYRAKH: Epeidh eimaste sto qema ths DEH, qa hqela na sas rwthsw, peran toy problhmatos poy entopizetai se sxesh me th dhmosiopoihsh toy non paper, ean h kybernhsh ws basikos metoxos pali ths DEH, exei ereynhsei thn proeleysh twn kefalaiwn, thn oikonomikh kai ependytikh drasthriothta ths CONTOUR GLOBAL ths etaireias poy emfanizetai ws basikos synetairos ths DEH stis ependyseis ths sta Balkania kai se mia ependysh poy eprokeito na ginei sth Flwrina kai aporrifqhke apo to Dioikhtiko Symboylio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn nomoi poy diepoyn th leitoyrgia olwn twn epixeirhsewn kai malista kai twn dhmosiwn. Se o,ti afora, loipon, to qema ayto, qa sas pw oti oi nomima eklegmenoi, ws melh toy D.S., exoyn topoqethqei sto sygkekrimeno zhthma me bash thn apofash poy phran. Malista, sas qymizw oti h apofash ayth elhfqh me omofwnia twn parontwn. Parontes htan o nyn Proedros ths GSEE kai ena stelexos ths PASKE sth DEH. Nomizw oti einai to idio stelexos poy yperaspisthke kai dhmosiws thn apoch toy kai thn apofash thn opoia elabe. Kata synepeia, den antilambanomai h mallon antilambanomai oti h prospaqeia poy ginetai apo thn pleyra ths antipoliteyshs -h ean oxi apo to epishmo PASOK, alla apo kapoia stelexh toy PASOK- einai na dhmioyrghsei mia qolh eikona ekei poy den yparxei.

LEONTITSH: Ti apanta h kybernhsh sto aithma twn daskalwn na synanthqoyn me ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn hdh synanthqei me thn k. Giannakoy. H ypoyrgos Paideias einai sth diaqesh twn daskalwn me toys opoioys exei syzhthsei. H k. Giannakoy eqese jekaqara stoys daskaloys tis apoceis ths kybernhshs. Einai apolytws safes, einai gnwsto se oloys oti h kybernhsh protiqetai na ikanopoihsei to basiko aithma twn oikonomikwn apolabwn twn daskalwn, dinontas ta 105 eyrw, ta opoia politika eixe desmeyqei na dwsei hdh apo thn proeklogikh periodo.

MPOTSARAKOS: Den qa synanthqoyn me ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den problepetai ranteboy me ton Prwqypoyrgo.

BLAXOS: Exete metaniwsei poy apomakrynqhke o k. Palaiokrassas apo th DEH;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai pleon poly makrinh ypoqesh. Topoqethqhka tote. Ean anatrejete sto arxeio toy briefing, eimai bebaios oti qa breite mia apanthsh sto erwthma sas.

KAKALHS: Symfwna me thn kybernhsh to akaqaristo egxwrio proion anebainei, ta eisodhmata epishs, h anergia peftei, h akribeia kai ta kartel anazhtoyntai, mallon ginontai ereynes. Mhpws kapoy h kataskeyh ayths ths magikhs eikonas prosballei th nohmosynh twn politwn poy aisqanontai oti zoyn se allh xwra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Paroysiazete mia eikona ws magikh eikona, apajiwnontas ola ta stoixeia.

KAKALHS: Ola proerxontai apo thn kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kata synepeia, afoy apajiwnete ola ta stoixeia, mporeite na bgalete opoio symperasma qelete. O mhdenismos odhgei pantoy. Bebaiws, synhqws odhgei sto poyqena.

KAKALHS: Den einai alhqeia oti odhgei sthn anergia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: ... Alla mporei na odhghsei sth mhdenistikh skech h proseggish, opws ayth poy anaferete. H anergia peftei. Einai alhqeia.

KAKALHS: Den anebainei to AEP;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto exei kati to arnhtiko;

KAKALHS: Ma, synolika ola pane kala, oi ariqmoi eyhmeroyn, alla o kosmos den nomizw oti to idio aisqanetai; Ayto lew, mhpws zoyme se allh xwra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na pw tipote perissotero, para to oti h mhdenistikh logikh poy diepei thn erwthsh sas den apotypwnei thn pragmatikothta.

KYRITSHS: Se genikes grammes, h idia erwthsh: Efoson einai ola ayta ta pragmata etsi opws ta periegrace o k. Kakalhs, me bash ta stoixeia ths kybernhshs, giati h kybernhsh akoloyqei mia toso perioristikh politikh kai leei ``den exw gia to ena, den exw gia to allo'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se eidikes grammes h idia apanthsh, oxi mono pros ton k. Kakalh, alla kai pros ton k. Siderh nwritera, otan eipa gia thn katastash ths oikonomias. H ypoqesh toy noikokyrematos ths oikonomias, opws jerei o kaqenas apo to proswpiko toy paradeigma...

KYRITSHS: Den einai aytoskopos, e;

ROYSOPOYLOS: ... den einai mia ypoqesh h opoia teleiwnei thn hmera poy anakoinwnetai oti oi deiktes phgainoyn kalytera. Ean pragmatika qeloyme ta pragmata na einai kalytera, tote xreiazetai prospaqeia. Ayto isxyei se oloys toys tomeis ths zwhs. Thn hmera dhladh poy qa doyleyoyn acoga ola ta sxoleia ths xwras, den shmainei oti teleiwse kai h prospaqeia gia mia kalyterh Paideia. Thn hmera poy qa anakalyfqei mia megalh anakalych kai qa doqei to Nompel sthn antistoixh episthmh, den shmainei oti teleiwse kai h ereyna gi' ayth thn episthmh.

KYRITSHS: Oxi, alla na mhn kerdisei kai kati o ergazomenos apo ayth thn ypoqesh k. Ekproswpe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws.

KYRITSHS: Pote qa kerdisei to apotelesma twn kopwn kai twn qysiwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To apotelesma twn kopwn kai twn qysiwn, einai ena koinwniko merisma to opoio didetai. Exei hdh arxisei na didetai. Qewreite oti ta 105 eyrw ta opoia qa doqoyn stoys daskaloys, dhladh ena pososto ths tajews toy 12% se sxesh me ton misqo toy prwtodiorizomenoy daskaloy, einai ena pososto ashmanto;

KYRITSHS: Einai poly xamhla o phxhs, k. Ekproswpe, etsi kai alliws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ejartatai. Ejartatai pws parakoloyqei kaneis ton phxh. Emeis qeloyme na odhghsoyme ta pragmata pros to kalytero. Den qa diafwnhsw mazi sas oti se orismenes periptwseis o phxhs einai xamhla. An parei kaneis ton idiwtiko tomea, qa dei akomh xamhloteroys misqoys - ayto to gnwrizoyme oloi - ston prwtodiorizomeno ypallhlo. De shmainei oti ayto mas ikanopoiei. H prospaqeia einai gia dhmioyrgia mias pio antagwnistikhs oikonomias. Den yparxei allh meqodos, dieqnws. To gnwrizoyme. Oso pio antagwnistikh ginetai h oikonomia, toso perissoteres doyleies dhmioyrgoyntai, toso perissoteres qeseis ergasias prokyptoyn. H kratikistikh antilhch gia thn oikonomia exei apotyxei patagwdws.

BLAXOS: An, k. Ekproswpe, htan efapaj to poso ayto twn 105 eyrw, nomizw den qa yphrxan toso megales antidraseis apo thn pleyra twn daskalwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai, symfwnw mazi sas. Logika, opoiosdhpote, edw, erwthqei apo toys synadelfoys sas qa symfwnhsei. Bebaiws. Den qa diafwnhsw. Hrqa omws enwpion sas proxqes kai sas eipa oti h antoxh ths oikonomias einai ayth. Oti to poso ayto einai ethsiws 215 ekatommyria eyrw. Dioti, memonwmeno ena problhma mporei na exei xilia dikia. Ola ta problhmata mazi, poy exei na antimetwpisei mia kybernhsh, prepei na ta proseggisei me thn idia antikeimenikh proseggish -me isotimh proseggish giati einai kai alloi ergazomenoi- wste na ikanopoihsei tis anagkes h dynaton kai olwn.

POYLIDOY: Epeidh milhsate gia thn antagwnistikothta, sthn teleytaia metrhsh toy Dieqnoys Organismoy Emporioy, h Ellada einai pro teleytaia xwra sto epipedo ths E.E. kai meta apo emas einai h Polwnia kai teleiwse ekei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H Ellada paramenei sthn idia qesh, exete apolyto dikio. Wstoso, xwris na shmainei oti paragnwrizw ayto poy lete - to qewrw shmantiko - h prospaqeia poy ginetai einai epishs shmantikh. Deite sas parakalw poly -kai ean qelete na to syzhthsoyme kai pali- epi meroys deiktes. Qa diapistwsete, gia paradeigma, ayto poy egw synexws lew edw, oti dhladh diaqetoyme kalo yliko sthn Paideia, sthn Ekpaideysh. Kaloys kaqhghtes, kaloys foithtes. Qa diapistwsete oti sthn Ekpaideysh, h qesh mas sthn antagwnistikothta einai endekath. Einai ejairetikh qesh, se o,ti afora thn poiothta.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh eimai ``diastrofikos noys'', hqela na rwthsw ean ekkremei kapoio aithma toy Arxiepiskopoy k. Xristodoyloy pros ikanopoihsh apo thn pleyra toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw kapoio aithma, etsi opws to qetete eseis. Gnwrizw oti yparxoyn zhthmata ta opoia antimetwpizontai me amoibaia syzhthsh.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Eixate yposxeqei eseis gia tis taytothtes.

BLAXOS: Gia tis taytothtes den eixate desmeyqei k. Ekproswpe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Treis fores exw erwthqei, sta 2,5 xronia kai exw apanthsei. Isxyei h apanthsh moy.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, exete dikio oti oi deiktes prohgoyntai kai erxetai h empragmath apodeijh ths katastasews ths oikonomias. Na ypoqesoyme, afoy twra oi deiktes deixnoyn anakamch... .

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den einai oti oi deiktes prohgoyntai kai en synexeia erxetai h empragmath apodeijh. Giati oi deiktes, an einai h apariqmhsh swsth, apotypwnoyn thn pragmatikothta. Ara, den mporei na eipa ayto poy lete eseis, oti ``prohgoyntai kai akoloyqei''...

SIDERHS: Isws htan dikh moy laqos diatypwsh. Safws, alla den mporoyme amesws na exoyme to apotelesma empraktws. Ekeino poy qa hqela na rwthsw, pote problepetai na lyqoyn ta xeria sas kai na dwsete paroxes; Kata thn proeklogikh periodo qa einai wrimos o xronos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws diapistwsate, pragmata ta opoia exoyme desmeytei na kanoyme, ta kanoyme hdh edw kai poly kairo. H ypoqesh toy LAFKA, einai ena xarakthristiko paradeigma. H ypoqesh ths triteknhs oikogeneias, gia thn opoia sas diabasa edw tis proalles mia seira drasthriothtwn, einai xarakthristiko paradeigma. H ypoqesh twn daskalwn, asxetws an oi daskaloi dhlwnoyn oti den einai ikanopoihmenoi, einai epishs ena paradeigma. Yparxoyn kai polla alla.

BLAXOS: Ekloges pote qa ginoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To exoyme janapei ayto.

BLAXOS: Pote;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Problepetai apo to Syntagma. Sto telos ths 4etias.

BLAXOS: Eiste sigoyros dhladh, etsi;

MELIGKWNHS: Eipate prin ston synadelfo oti apajiwnei toys deiktes. Den kanate to idio kai eseis apo ta edrana ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, me toys deiktes kai ta noymera poy paroysiaze h kybernhsh Shmith; Den ta onomazate ``dhmioyrgikh logistikh'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas qymisw oti yphrxe katalytikh h parembash ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs kai ths Eurostat, gia ekeinoys toys deiktes, ekeina ta noymera opws ta eipate eseis. Katalytikh yper twn apocewn ths Neas Dhmokratias, ennow.

KAKALHS: Mia aporia kai ena epi meroys qema: Sto neo AEP ektos apo to eisodhma twn ierodoylwn qa perilambanetai kai ayto twn ntabatzhdwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na to skefteite; Qelete na perilhfqei sigoyra ayth h erwthsh sto shmerino briefing;

KAKALHS: Oso sobarh einai kai h ayjhsh toy AEP.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw janarwtw, aplws, an qelete na mpei ayth h erwthsh sto shmerino briefing.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Edw o Pagkalos eipe xeirotera shmera.

SIDERHS: Eipe o k. Kontopyrakhs.

POYLIDOY: O k. Kontopyrakhs milhse ...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parakalw, den exei anagkh apo yperaspish o k. Kakalhs. Mia xara ta leei o anqrwpos. Ayto to opoio eqese sto erwthma toy, toy lew, epeidh synedese dyo pragmata kai ta eqese opws ta eqese. En pash periptwsei, k. Kakalh...

KAKALHS: To ``ierodoyles'' grafetai kai sto Reuters, an to eidate to thlegrafhma. Den einai mono ...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Antilambaneste poly kala, eyfyhs anqrwpos eiste, oti anaferomai sto syndyasmo poy kanate sthn erwthsh sas.

KAKALHS: Einai poly pio sobaros, pantws.

MPOTSARAKOS: Einai omws pragmati stis proqeseis ths kybernhshs na synypologisei to ``mayro xrhma'' sto Akaqaristo Eqniko Proion; Kai ean nai, pws sth synexeia qa prospaqhsei na patajei ayth thn paraoikonomia otan qa thn symperilambanei ston ypologismo toy AEP poy exei epiptwseis kai sto elleimma kai sto dhmosio xreos, sta dhmosia oikonomika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas apanthsw poly genika, hdh o k. Alogoskoyfhs prepei na exei arxisei thn synenteyjh toy. Sas lew oti yparxei paraoikonomia sthn Ellada kai den komizw glaykas eis Aqhnas. Oloi to gnwrizoyme. Kai malista se poly ychla pososta. Syndeetai me forodiafygh, me thn prospaqeia gia patajh ths forodiafyghs, me tis yphresies oi opoies den katagrafontai se polles periptwseis epaggelmatiwn k.o.k.

XIWTHS: To deipno poy Prwqypoyrgoy, shmera, me toys boyleytes qa pragmatopoihqei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws.

XIWTHS: Alhqeyei oti sto menoy qa prosteqei kai lagos;

Sas eyxaristw.

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