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Greek Government Press Briefing, 09-12-22

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 22 Dekembrioy 2009

Ariqmos Deltioy: 241969672

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(221209)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 22 Dekembrioy 2009

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Synexizetai sth Boylh h syzhthsh toy prwtoy Proypologismoy ths kybernhshs. Para to dhmosionomiko ektroxiasmo poy klhronomhsame, timoyme thn empistosynh poy mas edeijan oi polites. Throyme tis desmeyseis mas gia thn anaqermansh ths oikonomias, th sthrijh twn adynamwn, ths mesaias tajhs, thn enisxysh ths paideias, ths ygeias kai toy koinwnikoy kratoys.

Parallhla, qetoyme ena filodojo, oso kai aparaithto dhmosionomiko stoxo: To elleimma na meiwqei sxedon tesseris monades toy AEP to 2010. O Proypologismos toy 2010 apotelei ena prwto qetiko bhma gia to noikokyrema ths oikonomias mas. To prwto bhma ths neas poreias ths xwras. Qa akoloyqhsei h kataqesh programmatos staqerothtas kai oi protaseis mas me ton koinwniko dialogo, poy hdh anoijame, gia tis megales tomes kai allages stis opoies qa proxwrhsoyme to 2010.

Hdh, brisketai se ejelijh, sthn Epitroph Empeirognwmonwn, o dialogos gia th dikaih anamorfwsh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos, enw shmera jekinhse kai o dialogos gia th rizikh, dikaih allagh toy forologikoy systhmatos.

Mprosta sthn jekaqarh grammh pleyshs poy kataqesame, tis allages kai tis tomes poy prowqoyme, h Nea Dhmokratia emfanizetai amhxanh, me apotelesma na dinei aytes tis hmeres sth Boylh, ena akomh resital politikhs aneyqynothtas. H oikonomikh krish den antimetwpizetai me aoristes anafores se endedeigmena metra. Perimename kai apo th Nea Dhmokratia sygkekrimenes protaseis. Alla, anti gi` ayto, akoyme ton k. Samara na nostalgei tis politikes toy k. Karamanlh, xwris na mas leei ti pisteyei kai ti prepei na ginei. Kai gia thn adynamia ths Neas Dhmokratias na paroysiasei sygkekrimenes protaseis, alla kai gia thn elleich politikoy qarroys poy deixnei, arnoymenh na analabei tis eyqynes ths, krinetai apo tis polites.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

PITTARAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eseis epimenete na lete oti timate thn empistosynh twn politikwn kai oti akoloyqeite tis desmeyseis sas. Wstoso, eixame akomh mia ypobaqmish ths oikonomias apo ton oiko Moody`s, ypobaqmish twn kratikwn omologwn. Ayto gia esas, ti einai twra; Einai akoma ena kerdoskopiko paixnidi eis baros ths xwras;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola na jekaqarisoyme, ti egine me ton oiko Moody`s. Yparxei mia sxetikh ypobaqmish, alla einai poly pio qetikh apo tis alles ypobaqmiseis kai apo ola ayta ta opoia ejelissontai to teleytaio xroniko diasthma sthn ellhnikh oikonomia. Kai fainetai oti exei kriqei qetikh kai apo tis agores, kaqoti peftoyn ta spreads. Apo kei kai pera, nomizw oti exei shmasia -mias poy qetoyme to qema ths sygkekrimenhs ypobaqmishs- kai h anakoinwsh poy ebgale o oikos Moody`s, symfwna me ton opoio krinetai se qetikh kateyqynsh, h poreia kai ta metra ths kybernhshs. Kai anamenoyn thn efarmogh twn metrwn aytwn. Apo kei kai pera, genikws, ayto poy leme ws kybernhsh einai oti oi dieqneis oikoi kanoyn th doyleia toys, emeis omws, me tis sygkekrimenes synqhkes ths oikonomias poy paralabame kai me tis proteraiothtes poy exoyme, kanoyme th doyleia mas ws kybernhsh, etsi wste na jefygoyme kai na anatajoyme thn arnhtikh katastash ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, prostateyontas sygxronws kai ton aplo polith.

PITTARAS: An moy epitrepete, sas akoyw na lete oti einai oysiastika pio qetikh apo alles. H prooptikh twn Moody`s gia thn Ellada einai arnhtikh gia to mellon ths oikonomias. Eseis pws blepete qetiko se ayto to pragma;

PETALWTHS: H sygkekrimenh ajiologhsh h opoia yparxei einai ajiologhsh A. Yparxei, opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, mia ypobaqmish, einai omws sxetikh. Kai bebaia, synodeyomenh kai me ayta poy eipa prohgoymenws.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na jerw, ean o k. Papandreoy, me toys omologoys toy ths Gallias kai ths Ispanias, opws egrafh ston Typo, brisketai se mia syzhthsh, prokeimenoy na yparjei ena plaisio arxwn gyrw apo ton tropo me ton opoio leitoyrgoyn aytoi oi oikoi, sto plaisio ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Kai sas to lew, dioti plhroforhqhkame oti syzhthse to qema me ton k. Qapatero, sto periqwrio ths Kopegxaghs kai ths prosfaths Synodoy Koryfhs kai to deytero, oti kai sth Gallia yparxei enas analogos problhmatismos. Kata synepeia, yparxei kati tetoio se ejelijh; Mporeite na mas peite kati, poy briskomaste;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa prohgoymenws kai epanalambanw oti h qesh ths kybernhshs einai oti oi dieqneis oikoi kanoyn mia sygkekrimenh doyleia, kanoyn th doyleia toys. Apo kei kai pera, omws, ypeyqynh gia thn oikonomikh katastash ths xwras kai gia thn poreia kai thn ejelijh ths oikonomias, einai h ekastote kybernhsh kai eidika ayth h kybernhsh, h opoia leitoyrgei me ton pio ypeyqyno tropo poy qa mporoyse na leitoyrgei mia kybernhsh, para tis terasties kai antijoes synqhkes tis opoies antimetwpizoyme.

KALOSTYPH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh exoyme ginei oloi eidikoi oikonomologoi aytes tis hmeres kai analytes oikonomikwn systhmatwn klp...

PETALWTHS: Ta maqame oloi anagkastika, dystyxws.

KALOSTYPH: Entajei, kamia antirrhsh gi` ayto, alla en pash periptwsei, egw loipon qa hqela na rwthsw dyo pragmata: To ena einai, ti einai ayth h istoria peri ektakths eisforas, poy enw to PASOK proeklogika qewroyse oti einai antisyntagmatikh -kai einai- ayth poy eixe ypobalei h Nea Dhmokratia kai taytoxrona na kathgoreitai h kybernhsh oti exei hdh epiballei, an isxyei qelw na rwthsw, dyo ektaktes eisfores poy profanws, efoson h prohgoymenh htan antisyntagmatikh, qa einai kai aytes, milane dhladh gia mia ektakth eisfora sto telos akinhths perioysias kai allh mia  den ta jerw poly kala ta oikonomika- h deyterh, leei, se aytes tis epixeirhseis poy exoyn kerdh anw twn 5 ekatommyriwn eyrw. Einai etsi ayto; To ena skelos, toy oikonomikoy erwthmatos. Kai to deytero skelos einai: Polys logos ginetai kai poly swsta, gia tis apodeijeis poy prepei oloi na ekdidoyn. Hqela na rwthsw, as poyme, giati den qa mporoysan -apo toy xronoy qa doyme ti qa ginei, alla kai gia fetos- osoi syntajioyxoi kyriws, mazeyoyn apodeijeis kai fysika oxi apo gymnasthria, oxi apo kommwthria, oxi toso poly apo tabernes, efoson mazeyoyn apo ta soyper-market h apo opoydhpote aytoi oi anqrwpoi, exoyn kapoia ejoda, den qa mporoyse na ajiopoihqei kai fetos yper toys ena tetoio metro ektaktws, as to poyme; Ena eidos ektakths eisforas yper syntajioyxwn gia to 2009.

PETALWTHS: Na jekinhsw apo to teleytaio: Ta panta einai sto trapezi, ta panta syzhtoyntai se sxesh me to forologiko systhma. Apo kai pera, to qema twn apodeijewn einai eynohto oti kineitai kai pali, giati yparxei terastia forodiafygh, terastia mh katabolh toy FPA apo tis epixeirhseis kai apo ta katasthmata. Kai to metro ayto stoxeyei ekei. Gia to prwto poy eipate, yparxei mia basikh diafora. Emeis, ontws, eixame katakrinei th Nea Dhmokratia kai twra blepoyme oti se prwto baqmo, to Dioikhtiko Dikasthrio exei krinei oti einai antisyntagmatikh ekeinh h ektakth eisfora. H diafora mas me th Nea Dhmokratia, poia einai; Oti h Nea Dhmokratia epebale ektakth eisfora se fysika proswpa kai malista me anadromiko tropo kai ekei kriqhke to antisyntagmatiko apo to sygkekrimeno Dioikhtiko Dikasthrio. Emeis milame gia ektakth eisfora stis megales epixeirhseis. Ekei einai h diafora mas, ekei einai to antisyntagmatiko h mh, to opoio qa kriqei kai ametaklhta bebaiws, alla ekei fainetai kai ti proteraiothtes qetei to kaqe komma. Me poioys einai kai me poioys den einai.

POLYMEROS: Mhpws mporeite na mas dieykrinisete ti qelate na peite me th ``sxetikh ypobaqmish toy oikoy Moody`s''; Mia ypobaqmish den einai ypobaqmish;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws. Mia ypobaqmish einai panta ypobaqmish. Alla krinoyme sth sygkekrimenh xronikh sygkyria kai krinoyme ti shmainei h kaqe ypobaqmish. Kai ayto poy eipa, to epanalambanw: Sth sygkekrimenh ypobaqmish, briskomaste pali sto baqmo A kai malista peftoyn ta spreads, poy shmainei oti krinetai qetikh apo tis dieqneis agores. Kai malista akoloyqei kai mia anakoinwsh sthn ypobaqmish ayth, symfwna me thn opoia o oikos Moody`s qewrei oti ta metra ths kybernhshs einai pros th swsth kateyqynsh kai anamenetai h efarmogh toys. Ara, blepontas ola ta sxetika, mporoyme kai krinoyme kai emeis shmera.

POLYMEROS: Ara, eisaste ikanopoihmenoi...

PETALWTHS: Ikanopoihmenos, kanenas den qa mporoyse na einai apo mia ypobaqmish. Alla, zoyme sth sygkekrimenh xronikh sygkyria kai me tis pieseis, oi opoies yparxoyn kai me th gnwsth asxhmh katastash ths ellhnikhs oikonomias.

SIDERHS: Entajei, exete dikio, 3,30 monades anebaine prin ligo to Xrhmatisthrio, alla eipate oti oi dieqneis oikoi kanoyn th doyleia toys kai eseis th dikh sas. Pote qa kanete oloklhrwtika kala th doyleia sas kai qa teleiwsei ayth h faidrothta poy exei teinei na ginei me toys genikoys grammateis; Epiasan Xristoygenna.

PETALWTHS: Oson afora toys genikoys grammateis, exoyme pei polles fores oti yparxei ena sygkekrimeno systhma apo to opoio krinontai, me sygkekrimena krithria. Stis perissoteres qeseis, hdh, oi genikoi grammateis einai egkatesthmenoi kai otan oloklhrwqoyn oi diadikasies epiloghs qa anakoinwnontai.

SIDERHS: Megalh dystokia yparxei kyrie Ekproswpe. Qa mas ejhghsete giati yparxei ayth h dystokia; Tis prwtes hmeres ypotiqetai oti kanate prosektikh epilogh. Pleon, meta apo 70 hmeres poso prosektikh mporei na einai kai poso anikano ayto to systhma poy den mporei na epilejei pleon genikoys grammateis kai eftasan oi giortes kai akoma toys epilegei;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei kamia anikanothta. Exw pei epaneilhmmenws kai to epanalambanw oti jekinhsame mia kainotomo diadikasia, prokeimenoy na exoyme ta kalytera stelexh, etsi wste na plaisiwsoyn aytes tis sygkekrimenes anwteres kratikes qeseis. Sto plaisio ayto proxwrame.

SIDERHS: Yparxei dystokia.

PETALWTHS: Ayth einai apoch sas. Egw sas apantaw me ton tropo poy sas apanthsa.

MIXAHL: O k. Roblias ypebale thn paraithsh toy kai egine apodekth. Kai xqes anakoinwqhke o antikatastaths toy k. Ntolios. Qelw na rwthsw, loipon, oti kala gia toys genikoys grammateis mas exete ejhghsei kat` epanalhch th diadikasia poy akoloyqeitai. Oi yfypoyrgoi poy diorizontai apo ton Prwqypoyrgo me thn anakoinwsh ths kybernhshs pote qa paroyn armodiothtes; Kai mh moy peite oti exoyn parei armodiothtes, dioti qa sas parakalesw na mas dwsete sygkekrimena FEK sta opoia anaferontai poioi yfypoyrgoi exoyn paralabei kai poies armodiothtes.

PETALWTHS: Epifylassomai na to kanw.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Problepetai oti qa paroyn armodiothtes, dhladh;

PETALWTHS: Ma, hdh exoyn parei armodiothtes oi yfypoyrgoi kai epifylassomai na sas tis anaferw.

KATSIGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na moy peite, ti ennooyse o Prwqypoyrgos otan elege tis proalles oti oi dieqneis oikonomikoi oikoi den mporei na anebokatebazoyn kybernhseis. Fobatai anatroph ths kybernhshs toy kai to leei ayto;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei kamia periptwsh, oxi anatrophs, alla oyte kan tetoioy foboy. H kybernhsh toy PASOK eklexthke apo ton ellhniko lao me to safestero tropo poy qa mporoyse na eklegei. Me mia poly megalh diafora apo to deytero komma, th Nea Dhmokratia. Eixe kai ejakoloyqei na exei mia terastia isxyrh nomimopoihtikh bash apo ton ellhniko lao. Kai ayto poy eisprattoyme einai oti o ellhnikos laos, o Ellhnas poliths katanoei, anagnwrizei se ti dyskolies briskomaste, pws parathse sthn kyriolejia, pws egkateleice to karabi h Nea Dhmokratia. Kai ayto poy kanoyme, einai na efarmozoyme thn entolh toy ellhnikoy laoy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Prin 10 hmeres o Prwqypoyrgos kyrie Ekproswpe eipe stis Bryjelles oti den qa epiblhqoyn metra se misqwtoys kai syntajioyxoys, oti to problhma den einai o misqwtos kai paei legontas. Treis hmeres meta, sto Zappeio, anakoinwse metra opws perikopes kata 10% twn epidomatwn kai eniaia forologikh klimaka, kati poy odhgei me ariqmoys se meiwsh twn amoibwn twn ergazomenwn, sto Dhmosio gia paradeigma, poy syzhtoyme, ths tajhs toy 4, 5, 6, analoga, en pash periptwsei, molis qa jekaqarisete kai ayto qa broyme kai emeis ta noymera epakribws. Ti mesolabhse gi` ayth thn toympa; Mhpws htan oi dieqneis oikoi h kati allo; Giati egine olh ayth h strofh;

PETALWTHS: Mia dikaioterh strofh sto forologiko systhma den synepagetai kai den shmainei perikoph misqwn. Einai poly pio synqeto to zhthma. Otan gnwrizoyme oti to forologiko mas systhma einai adiko, otan hdh exoyme desmeytei kai proeklogika kai meteklogika oti emeis qa to allajoyme kai jekiname na to allazoyme. Einai allo to qema oti ta barh den qa ta plhrwsei o aplos poliths kai allo oti kanoyme pio dikaio to forologiko systhma.

GARGALAKOS: Gia to allo qema, sto 10% ths meiwshs twn epidomatwn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn;

PETALWTHS: Kai ekei yparxei ena qema, toy na ginei pio dikaia h katanomh twn barwn.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Sygnwmh, epi toy qematos: O k. Papakwnstantinoy sto Londino, prosfata, dhlwse oti h meiwsh twn epidomatwn kata 10% poy ejhggeile o Prwqypoyrgos, isodynamei me onomastikh meiwsh twn misqwn kata 4%.

PETALWTHS: Ayto, omws, einai ws apotelesma. Den einai meiwsh toy misqoy.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Den einai meiwsh toy misqoy ayto;

PETALWTHS: Einai kati diaforetiko kai etsi prepei na krinetai.

SIDERHS: O k. Prwqypoyrgos einai yper ths ameshs Dhmokratias kai ths dhmosias diaboyleyshs. Shmera qa syzhthsoyn metajy allwn sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio gia toys metanastes kai thn chfo toys stis dhmotikes ekloges. Giati to qema ayto den to bazei se dhmochfisma, gia na apofanqei h koinwnia, me meqodoys kai taktikes ameshs Dhmokratias;

PETALWTHS: Enas terastios ariqmos qematwn qa mporoyse na tiqetai se dhmochfisma, ean omws yparxei logos. Afhste na doyme to sxedio nomoy, afhste na syzhthqei sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Oytws h allws qa ginei dhmosia diaboyleysh meta apo ayth thn apofash toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, opoy mporei na paroyn meros oloi  oxi mono oi emplekomenoi- oi Ellhnes polites. Kai polla apo ayta ta apotelesmata ths diaboyleyshs, kaqe fora, enswmatwnontai kai sto sxetiko sxedio nomoy. Oson afora, omws, to sygkekrimeno sxedio nomoy, yparxei kai proeklogikh desmeysh toy PASOK oti qa proxwrhsei pros ayth thn kateyqynsh. Exoyme sygkekrimenes ajies, exoyme sygkekrimenh ideologia kai thn efarmozoyme.

KALOSTYPH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo thn hmera poy h kybernhsh sas anelabe ta pragmata, mphkate sth gnwsth diadikasia toy na balete ton kosmo na ypobalei ta biografika toy, ta ptyxia toy, ta metaptyxiaka toy kai ta didaktorika toy. Polloi skefqhkan tote oti den ``yparxei ston hlio moira'' gia anqrwpoys oi opoioi endexomenws den exoyn metaptyxiaka, den exoyn didaktorika, den exoyn spoydasei to ejwteriko. Kai ayto eixe dhmioyrghsei mia aisqhsh, as poyme. Twra blepoyme oti sto Ypoyrgeio Toyristikhs Anaptyjhs, o neos genikos grammateas den exei ptyxio. Egw hqela na rwthsw telika. Prepei na exei kaneis mono ptyxia, metaptyxiaka, didaktorika apo jena panepisthmia gia na mporei na asxolhqei me ta koina h mporei na exei kai kapoia as poyme, koinwnikh, agwnistikh diadromh se topiko epipedo h se eyrytero epipedo gia na mporesei na exei ayth thn eykairia; Ti apo ta dyo isxyei;

PETALWTHS: Eylogh h aporia sas. Emeis, gia thn anadeijh twn stelexwn se ayth th qesh, qetoyme treis proypoqeseis: Prwton, oysiastika prosonta. Deyteron, politikh empeiria. Kai triton, koinwnikh prosfora. Den yparxei systhma ASEP, den yparxei moriodothsh, poy shmainei oti h synektimhsh aytwn twn triwn stoixeiwn einai ayto poy odhgei sth stelexwsh, kata tekmhrio toylaxiston, toy kratikoy mhxanismoy, me ta kalytera stelexh. Gia to sygkekrimeno geniko grammatea poy eipate, gnwrizoyme oti htan epi xronia dhmarxos sthn Io kai exei mia poly megalh prosfora sthn toyristikh anaptyjh ths perioxhs toy. Ara, synektimhqhkan tetoioy eidoys stoixeia kai gi` ayto akribws, leme oti den einai ASEP. Me bash th synektimhsh krinetai kai to poios prepei na stelexwsei mia sygkekrimenh qesh.

XRISTOFILOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, oi trapezes phran apo to kratos 28 disekatommyria gia eggyhsh ths reystothtas toys logw ths krishs. Twra exoyn antirrhseis gia to nomosxedio gia th reystothta sthn agora. Pws krinei h kybernhsh th stash toys;

PETALWTHS: Oi trapezes einai kai foreis anaptyjhs kai shmantikos pylwnas ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Oi trapezes exoyn tis apoceis toys, h kaqe trapeza exei th dikh ths. H kybernhsh exei th dikh ths apoch, th dikh ths apofash, kaqe fora, lambanontas fysika ypoch kai th gnwmh olwn twn koinwnikwn etairwn. Kai malista, epeidh eipate gia antirrhseis egw exw ypoch moy kai to ti eipe o proedros ths Eqnikhs Trapezas, ti eipe o dieyqynwn symboylos ths Eqnikhs Trapezas, opoy oysiastika symfwnoyn me ayto to nomosxedio.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Epeidh syzhtame to forologiko, ejetazei h kybernhsh to endexomeno ayjhshs ths parakrathshs toy foroy gia misqwtoys, syntajioyxoys kai eleyqeroys epaggelmaties;

PETALWTHS: Sth syzhthsh gia to forologiko nomosxedio qa syzhthqoyn polla zhthmata. Ara, as mhn protrexoyme.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Qa to qesei ayto to zhthma h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Apo shmera jekinaei h diaboyleysh. Qa fanei ti zhthmata tiqentai. Pantws, isxyei h genikoterh desmeysh mas gia prostasia twn oikonomika adynamwn politwn.

GARGALAKOS: Sto qema ths eqeloysias toy OLP, telika yparxei sthn kybernhsh mia sympnoia; Giati akoysame oti tis perasmenes hmeres ton k. Loberdo na diafwnei. Kai oxi mono ton k. Loberdo. Telika, ayth h sympnoia kai o syntonismos, o aparaithtos gia thn kybernhsh yparxei;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei sympnoia, yparxei syntonismos. O k. Loberdos diafwnhse gia to poios qa katabalei ayta ta xrhmata ta opoia einai para polla kai aporreoyn apo th symbash poy ypegrace h prohgoymenh kybernhsh kai malista me to poies eggyhseis qa katablhqoyn. Apo th stigmh poy jekaqaristhke oti qa katabalei, oxi ta tameia, alla o Organismos Limenos Peiraiws kai malista me eggyhseis, den yparxei kanena zhthma. Na ypenqymisw oti einai ypoxrewsh thn opoia klhronomhsame apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh. Malista einai eqeloysia ejodos h opoia sta sygkekrimena dhmosionomika epipeda, etsi opws briskomaste shmera, fainetai oti milame gia megala posa. Den prepei na jexname bebaiws oti kai o ariqmos twn ergazomenwn poy ypebalan aithsh einai poly mikros, gyrw stoys 40 kai den exei kamia sxesh me toys ariqmoys poy akoygontai. Alla, einai mia ypoxrewsh thn opoia analabame ws kratos apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Afoy yparxei sympnoia sthn kybernhsh kai metajy twn ypoyrgwn yparxei synennohsh, giati o k. Loberdos efqase sto shmeio na dhlwsei oti qa paraithqei;

PETALWTHS: Den exw antilhfqei poy to exei dhlwsei ayto o k. Loberdos.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ston Prwqypoyrgo.

PETALWTHS: Pote;

XASAPOPOYLOS: Thn hmera poy anoije to qema ayto. Giati den yphrxe synennohsh me thn k. Katselh.

PETALWTHS: Epeidh den yphrje pote tetoio zhthma, gi` ayto lew oti den exw antilhfqei pote kai pws ypeblhqh tetoio aithma.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ep` aytoy. Rwthsate ton k. Loberdo an eixe thn paraithsh toy sto tsepaki;

PETALWTHS: Ayta einai sxolia twn efhmeridwn. Egw sas apantw qetikotata: Pote den yphrje tetoio zhthma.

MIXAHL: Epibebaiwnete shmerino dhmosieyma, symfwna me to opoio o k. Papandreoy thlefwnhse ston k. Loberdo kai toy zhthse mia plhrh enhmerwsh gia olo to asfalistiko qema twn ypo eqeloysia ejodo apo ton OLP, alla kai genikotera gia to asfalistiko zhthma; Gia thn poreia ths asfalistikhs metarryqmishs;

PETALWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos zhta sxedon kaqhmerina enhmerwsh kai malista gia zhthmata ta opoia einai kai trexonta. Ayto den einai oyte qema, oyte eidhsh kai den exei kai kamia sygkekrimenh ajia. To qema einai oti proxwrame me poly sklhres synqhkes ston koinwniko dialogo gia to Asfalistiko. Blepoyme oti ejelissetai me ton kalytero tropo, toylaxiston diadikastika. Kai prospaqoyme na feroyme se peras mia terastia apostolh gia na kleisei epiteloys, ayth h mayrh trypa toy asfalistikoy systhmatos, poy exei amesh epirroh sthn oikonomia kai sta eisodhmata toy aploy Ellhna polith.

MIXAHL: Afoy einai etsi opws ta lete ta pragmata, tote o k. Papandreoy pws dikaiologei th sympnoia; An yphrxe h sympnoia kai h synennohsh kai o sygxronismos, den qa yphrxe oyte h diaforopoihsh toy k. Loberdoy oti den mporoyn na katabaloyn ta tameia  dhladh na xreiastei to jekaqarisma opws eipate eseis, poios qa plhrwsei thn eqeloysia- deyteron den qa xreiazotan o k. Papandreoy  efoson qa yphrxe olh ayth h synennohsh- na milhsei me ton ypoyrgo toy gia na antilhfqei h na enhmerwqei me leptomereies gia to ti yparxei...

PETALWTHS: Sygnwmh, dhladh, eseis moy lete oti shmera o Prwqypoyrgos epixeirhse na antilhfqei ti ginetai me to asfalistiko zhthma kai ti ginetai me ton OLP;

MIXAHL: To dhmosieyma poy sas zhthsa na moy epibebaiwsete anaferei oti o k. Papandreoy, xqes, thlefwnhse ston k. Loberdo kai shmera qa dei thn k. Katselh gia to qema ayto. Ayto zhthsa na moy epibebaiwsete.

PETALWTHS: Den diaceydw oyte epibebaiwnw dhmosieymata. Egw sas lew oti yparxei syllogikh drash ths kybernhshs. Yparxei sygkekrimeno orama. Yparxei sygkekrimenh stoxeysh kai malista gnwrizoyme oloi kai tis antoxes twn shmerinwn tameiwn. Apo kei kai pera, to qema exei jekaqaristei, poios kataballei aytes tis apozhmiwseis gia tis opoies mas desmeyse h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias kai poion qa barynoyn sto telos.

KOYTRAS: O OLP sto dhmosio den anhkei;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws, alla o OLP einai enas sygkekrimenos organismos. Einai nomiko proswpo me dika toy esoda poy den barynoyn ton proypologismo kai gi` ayto akribws yparxei kai ayth h diakrish.

MIXAHL: H syntajiodothsh;

PETALWTHS: Apo ton OLP eipame. Gia th syntajiodothsh; Edw milame gia thn eqeloysia ejodo. Ayto einai allo pragma.

MIXAHL: Oi opoioi pairnoyn o,ti pairnoyn apo eqeloysia ejodo kai entassontai prowra sth syntajiodothsh. Aytwn tis syntajeis toys qa tis katabaloyn ta tameia. Den qa tis katabalei o OLP. O OLP qa toys dwsei to efapaj, qa fygoyn kai meta qa prepei mhna, mhna na ta plhrwnoyn apo ta tameia. Ayto einai to problhma.

PETALWTHS: Egw sas jekaqarisa kai sas eipa poios eyqynetai kai poios desmeyetai en telei. Kai gia thn eqeloysia ejodo poios katabalei thn apozhmiwsh.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Lete oti proxwrate ton koinwniko dialogo kai malista ypo sklhres synqhkes. Wstoso, empeiroi boyleytes sas me tis topoqethseis toys sth Boylh sthn oysia ypodhlwnoyn oti pate arga kai oti den yparxei allos xronos gia anaboles kai kaqysterhseis. Mhpws, telika yparxei problhma me thn prowqhsh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy;

PETALWTHS: To kybernhtiko ergo prowqeitai me ton taxytero kai asfalestero tropo, alla den arkei mono h taxythta. Xreiazetai kai asfaleia sthn ylopoihsh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy. O kaqenas apo emas, akomh kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos, ejefrase thn agwnia toy sto Zappeio gia thn epispeysh aytwn twn megalwn diarqrwtikwn allagwn poy xreiazetai h ellhnikh oikonomia kai to ellhniko kratos, prokeimenoy na petyxoyme se prwth fash to noikokyrema kai sygxronws thn anaptyjh, etsi wste na stamathsoyme na zoyme se ayth thn oikonomikh katastash, sthn opoia exei perielqei h xwra me eyqynh kaqara ths Neas Dhmokratias.

LIONAKHS: Eipate sxetika me toys trapezites, oti h kybernhsh exei th dikh ths apoch kai panta akoyei kai toys koinwnikoys etairoys. Sto metwpo poy fainetai oti exei anoijei anamesa sthn k. Katselh kai stoys trapezites, anaforika me to nomosxedio ths poy apotelei kai proeklogikh desmeysh toy PASOK. H kybernhsh sthrizei thn Loyka Katselh;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola den nomizw oti yparxei metwpo anamesa sthn k. Katselh kai toys trapezites. Sas eipa kai prohgoymenws oi apoceis toy kaqenos einai sebastes. H kybernhsh apofasizei kai den apofasizei monh ths h k. Katselh gia na xreiazetai sthrijh ths kybernhshs. Apofasizei h kybernhsh me ton gnwsto syllogiko tropo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me sygxwreite k. Ekproswpe. H kybernhsh, lete, den yparxei metwpo, den yparxei diafwnia, oti yparxei symfwnia. Tote, me sygxwreite, lambanete ypoch sas thn proeidopoihsh twn trapezwn, oti an proxwrhsei ayto to nomosxedio kai aytes oi ryqmiseis, oi trapezes qa daneizoyn ligoteroys kai me pio akribo epitokio;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa, oti oles oi protaseis kai oi apoceis lambanontai ypoch. Apo kei kai pera omws yparxei mia desmeysh th opoia thn ylopoioyme. Mas endiaferei h reystothta sthn agora. Mas endiaferei h asfaleia toy Ellhna polith, toy Ellhna katanalwth stis synallaktikes toy sxeseis. Kai me ayto ton tropo proxwroyme kai mesa apo tis desmeyseis kai toy Koinotikoy Dikaioy, alla kai tis desmeyseis ths agoras. Safws kai ta lambanoyme ola ypoch. Gia ayto eipa oti den arkei mono h taxythta ths ylopoihshs toy kybernhtikoy ergoy, apaiteitai kai asfaleia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, milame gia ena nomosxedio, to opoio symfwna me tis proeklogikes sas desmeyseis qa eprepe na exei chfistei stis prwtes 100 hmeres...

PETALWTHS: Oi opoies den exoyn parelqei akomh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: H den qa yparjei nomoqetiko ergo mexri na parelqoyn. Me sygxwreite, mono o Proypologismos.

PETALWTHS: Oxi mono o Proypologismos. Hdh yparxei nomoqetiko ergo, meros toy opoioy exei oloklhrwqei kai meros poy brisketai se ejelijh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Mhn makrynoyme ta hmerologia, ektos nai, an metrate alliws tis 100 hmeres.

PETALWTHS: Egw pantws lew oti den fqasame stis 100.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Lew loipon, eprepe na ftasoyme stis 75, stis 80 hmeres gia na zhthsei h k. Katselh th gnwmh ths Eyrwpaikhs Kentrikhs Trapezas h na dei an symfwnoyn oi ellhnikes trapezes me ayto to ponhma;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola na sas ypenqymisw oti h k. Katselh kai me anakoinwsh ths exei dhlwsei oti prin apo thn kataqesh aytoy toy sxedioy nomoy, hdh yphrxe mia atyph diaboyleysh me thn Eyrwpaikh Kentrikh Trapeza kai malista, apo th stigmh poy hgerqhsan kapoies amfisbhthseis gia th symbatothta me to Koinotiko Dikaio, desmeythke - kai hdh exei ginei, exei apostalei sthn Eyrwpaikh Kentrikh Trapeza pros gnwmodothsh to sygkekrimeno nomosxedio - gia sygkekrimenes diatajeis wste na mhn yparxei asymbatothta me to Koinotiko Dikaio. Ara, gia ayto sas eipa oti ta qemata twn nomwn epeidh einai synqeta xreiazontai kai asfaleia, kai malista otan exoyme na kanoyme kai me koinotikh nomoqesia prospaqoyme na exoyme asfalh sxedia nomoy, etsi wste na mhn kindyneyoyn na mhn ylopoihqoyn sto mellon. Einai jekaqara ta pragmata.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na sas rwthsw ena allo se sxesh me toys dieqneis oikoys. Eipate oti den yparxei qema anatrophs apo toys dieqneis oikoys, tote giati o k. Papandreoy noiwqei thn anagkh na dhlwnei stoys synergates toy apo toys opoioys erwtatai sxetikws, oti den dexetai pieseis, oti den ton endiaferoyn oi pieseis. Noiwqei oti yponomeyetai h koybenta na ginetai;

PETALWTHS: Apanthsa prohgoymenws kai apanthsa epaneilhmmenws:  Oti oi dieqneis oikoi kanoyn mia sygkekrimenh doyleia. Exoyn kapoies apoceis, tis ekfrazoyn me to gnwsto tropo. Apo kei kai pera h kybernhsh einai ayth h opoia einai ypeyqynh na kanei th dikh ths doyleia gia thn anatajh ths ellhnikhs oikonomias.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na sas rwthsw ean h kybernhsh skeftetai na topoqethsei yfypoyrgo sto Ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs, armodio gia ta qemata Naytilias.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh anakoinwnei toys ypoyrgoys, yfypoyrgoys otan yparxei logos anakoinwshs.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sygnwmh, ayto ti shmainei twra;

PETALWTHS: Oti den tiqetai tetoio zhthma.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sthn paroysa fash h genikws;

PETALWTHS: Panta milame gia thn paroysa fash. Ayto pleon einai nte fakto.

KALOSTYPH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, meres poy einai, allh mia erwthsh gia thn agora. Akoysame prosfata gia ena sobaro diatrofiko skandalo kai akoysame oti h k. Mpatzelh protiqetai na rijei poly aysthres kampanes se aytes tis etairies. Epeidh, egw toylaxiston, den exw plhroforhqei poies etairies einai kai sthn oikogeneia moy cwnizoyn kai den jeroyn ti pairnoyn. Mporoyme na maqoyme poies etairies einai aytes; Na to maqei o kosmos na profylaxqei mexri na pesoyn oi kampanes. Alhqeyoyn ayta poy akoysame gia to diatrofiko skandalo h oxi; Kai poies etairies einai;

PETALWTHS: Alhqeyoyn oti yparxei. Qa synennohqw me to Ypoyrgeio Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs kai qa sas apanthsw.

KALOSTYPH: Giati den exoyme maqei akomh, giati krybete to onoma toys; Giati prepei o kosmos na agorazei trofima apo aytes tis etairies poy ypotiqetai oti exoyn kanei ayta poy exoyn kanei.

PETALWTHS: Qa synennohqw me to Ypoyrgeio Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs kai qa sas apanthsw. Ekeino to opoio mporw na sas pw me bebaiothta einai oti pragmatika anamenetai h eishghsh twn yphresiakwn paragontwn, giati to prostimo to opoio problepetai exei mia terastia diakymansh. Qa yparjei apofash ths ypoyrgoy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs, etsi wste na anakoinwqei egkaira, prokeimenoy na dhmosiopoihqei kai poies etairies einai.

KALOSTYPH: Entajei gia to prostimo, alla twra agorazei o kosmos.

PETALWTHS: Dinoyme megalh barythta sthn asfaleia kai sthn poiothta, eidika twn trofimwn kai malista gi' ayto milame gia pistopoihmena trofima. Kai eidika otan prokeitai gia pistopoihmena trofima, qa prepei na yparxei megalyterh asfaleia kai megalyterh barythta, akomh, stis poines qa yparjei anakoinwsh poly syntoma.

KALOSTYPH: Nai, alla meres twra, den jeroyme poies etairies einai kai oi kosmos agorazei profanws apo aytes kai akoygontai diafora onomata gnwsta, bebaia.

PETALWTHS: Qa yparjei anakoinwsh.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, akoysa tis prohgoymenes hmeres ton antiproedro ths kybernhshs na leei oti den mas endiaferei toso ti lene oi dieqneis oikoi, oso h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh sthn opoia anhkoyme. Xqes, eixame mia ekfrash anhsyxias kai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai dia stomatos toy k. Sailplan, an den kanw laqos, akoysame oti, en pash periptwsei, den qa plhrwnoyn oi Germanoi gia ta kakws keimena sthn Ellada. Hqela na sas rwthsw prwton: Kata poso to programma staqerothtas kai anaptyjhs poy prokeitai na paroysiasoyme tis epomenes ebdomades qa ikanopoiei aytoys toys dyo, thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai th Germania, sto baqmo poy sas endiaferei. Kai deyteron: Se ti fash brisketai ayto to Symfwno Staqerothtas, kaqws plhsiazoyn oi hmeres.

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola na sas dhlwsw oti gnwrizoyme se poso asxhmh oikonomikh katastash briskomaste. Na sas dhlwsw oti thn anhsyxia den thn ekfrazoyn mono oi jenoi, thn ekfrazoyme kai emeis poly pio entona, giati emeis th biwnoyme kai emeis thn plhrwnoyme, o aplos Ellhnas poliths. Apo kei kai pera ayth thn anhsyxia emeis thn metatrepoyme se drash. Gi ayto akribws sxediazoyme kai efarmozoyme sygkekrimenes politikes, etsi wste na yparxei anaptyjh, etsi wste na stamathsei na yparxei ayth h aparadekth katastash sthn ellhnikh oikonomia.

Sxetika me to Programma Staqerothtas, poy einai h deyterh fash ths ajiopistias mas, milhsame sthn arxh gia Proypologismo, gia enan, oysiastika, ektakths anagkhs Proypologismo. Pame me to Programma Staqerothtas kai sygxronws me ena neo forologiko nomosxedio, etsi wste kai thn ajiopistia mas na tonwsoyme, alla kai na kanoyme oysiastika bhmata sthn anaptyjiakh kai oikonomikh mas poreia. Apo kei kai pera, oso afora to Programma Staqerothtas hdh gia shmera stis 14:30 exei programmatistei o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn na proedreysei sthn prwth synedriash toy Symboylioy Oikonomikwn Empeirognwmonwn, to opoio empleketai sthn katartish toy Programmatos Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs poy qa katateqei sto Ypoyrgeio, etsi wste na katateqei sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh meta thn plhrh ylopoihsh toy.

KALOSTYPH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mia erwthsh gia thn FYROM. Xqes o proedros ths FYROM k. Ibanof dhlwse oti h lysh sto qema ths onomasias den prepei na qijei thn eqnikh glwssikh kai politistikh taytothta. Kai bebaia kathgorhse thn Ellada gia anorqologikh antirrhsh sto qema ths enarjhs entajiakwn diapragmateysewn. Emena ayth h dhlwsh poy jexwrizei to qema ths onomasias apo thn eqnikh, glwssikh kai politistikh taytothta, moy kanei ligo qetiko. Den jerw, mporei na kanw laqos. Qelete na to sxoliasete;

PETALWTHS: Emeis pantws ekei poy apantame, se prwth fash einai sto qema ths onomasias. H qesh ths kybernhshs mas kai twn prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn, apo tote poy to eqese to PASOK, einai gnwsth: H eqnikh kokkinh grammh sto qema ths onomasias twn Skopiwn. Apo kei kai pera, ta alla den ta syzhtame.

KALOSTYPH: Nai, blepw oti kai aytos ta jexwrizei. Gi ayto.

SIDERHS: (den akoygetai) Apodexeste oti mporei na teqei qema taytothtas kai glwssas;

PETALWTHS: Emeis den apodexomaste tetoio qema. Den syzhtame. Ekqetoyme to qema ths onomasias me tis gnwstes proypoqeseis.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Epeidh syxna o Prwqypoyrgos tonizei thn anagkh enisxyshs twn eisodhmatwn twn ergazomenwn, qa hqela na moy sxoliasete thn dhlwsh toy proedroy toy SEB, o opoios anaferomenos sth nea eqnikh syllogikh symbash, dhladh stis ayjhseis twn misqwn twn ergazomenwn, dhlwse oti aytoi prepei na basisqoyn sth sklhrh shmerinh pragmatikothta kai oti epibalei mia sklhrh pragmatikothta poy epibalei tis dikes ths kokkines grammes. Qa hqela to sxolio ths kybernhshs panw se ayto.

PETALWTHS: Egw eimai kybernhtikos ekproswpos kai sxoliazw h anakoinwnw tis apofaseis kai tis protaseis ths kybernhshs. Den eimai ekproswpos toy SEB. O SEB exei th dikh toy apoch kai thn ekfrazei.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Ennoeite oti prepei na yparjoyn kokkines grammes stis ayjhseis twn ergazomenwn;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa. Prohgoymenws sas apanthsa. O SEB exei tis apoceis toy, h kybernhsh tis apoceis kai tis apofaseis ths.

POLYMEROS: Twra poy h Synodos ths Kopegxaghs katelhje se adiejodo, synexizei h prasinh politikh, h prasinh anaptyjh gia thn kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Sthn Kopegxagh mporei na eixame ta sygkekrimena apotelesmata, ta opoia safws kai den htan ta anamenomena. Alla pisteyw oti osoi symmeteixan sthn Kopegxagh efygan apo kei me endynamwmenh thn pepoiqhsh oti epiteloys qa prepei na allajoyme montelo anaptyjhs stis sygxrones politikes, stis sygxrones koinwnies, sta sygxrona krath. Na badisoyme pros thn prasinh anaptyjh kai ayto den einai mono qewria kai apoch ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, poy hdh th symmerizontai kai polles kybernhseis ston kosmo. Ekei fanhke pragmatika oti o Prwqypoyrgos kai Proedros toy PASOK G. Papandreoy paizei ena poly shmantiko rolo sth dieqnh skhnh, kai ws Proedros ths Sosialistikhs Dieqnoys, qetontas thn atzenta pollwn syzhthsewn poy eginan sto periqwrio ths Diaskechs me sygkekrimenes protaseis gia mia prasinh kai biwsimh anaptyjh.

Sas eyxaristw.

Kales giortes.


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