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Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-04-21

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 21 Aprilioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 263377224

Ekdosh 1

brf2104

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 21 Aprilioy 2010

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Apo thn prwth hmera ths diakybernhshs ths xwras apo to PASOK kai ton Prwqypoyrgo Giwrgo Papandreoy, qesame stoys polites ta pragmatika problhmata ths xwras. Milhsame eilikrina kai anoixta gia tis megales diarqrwtikes allages kai megales tomes sto fasma ths politikhs, ths oikonomias kai ths koinwnias poy apaitoyntai. Allages poy oloi mas jerame oti eprepe na ginoyn, alla den tolmhqhkan, polles apo aytes, mexri shmera.

Ta xronia sysswreymena problhmata ths xwras poy epiteinontai apo th shmerinh krish poy biwnoyme, me tis gnwstes aities, kaqistoyn epitaktikh thn anagkh aytwn twn allagwn. Stis plates ths shmerinhs kybernhshs peftei to istoriko baros, xwris fobo, achfwntas politiko kostos, mprosta sto eqniko symferon, na allajei dia pantos h eikona ths xwras.

Emeis tolmame, proxwrame se ekeines tis allages poy qa katasthsoyn th xwra mas mia sygxronh, leitoyrgikh, isxyrh kai filikh Politeia. Den prepei shmera na caxnoyme gia apodiopompaioys tragoys, blepontas to dentro kai xanontas to dasos. Prepei, me eilikrineia, na qesoyme epi taphtos ta problhmata mas kai me gennaiothta na ta antimetwpisoyme.

Den yparxoyn ejwterikoi swthres, alla oyte kai kryfoi exqroi. Yparxoyn dedomena problhmata poy diaxronika ejeqrece h ellhnikh Politeia kai ta opoia hrqe h wra, me eilikrineia kai qarros, na ta antimetwpisoyme. Eimaste apofasismenoi na ta antimetwpisoyme kai na ta jeperasoyme gia to kalo ths xwras kai twn sympolitwn mas.

Oi polites shmera gnwrizoyn kai antilambanontai oti den mporoyme na poreyqoyme me odhgo thn alogisth spatalh kai thn ``gkriza'' oikonomia. Gnwrizoyn kai gnwrizoyme oloi mas oti h poreia twn dhmosionomikwn ths xwras mas, opws ejelissotan, me th dramatikh ayth anejelegkth ayjhsh, den qa htan biwsimh.

Oi allages, loipon, poy prowqoyme, einai afenos rizikes kai afeteroy aparaithtes kai anagkaies. Anagkaies, oxi giati mas epiballontan h mas epiballontai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh h to D.N.T., opws kata koron akoygetai, alla giati, xwris aytes, den qa epibiwsei oyte dhmosionomika, alla oyte kai koinwnika h xwra.

Proxwroyme, loipon, amesa kai meqodika, se noikokyrema twn dhmosiwn dapanwn, me drastiko periorismo twn prwtogenwn dapanwn kai synexeis elegxoys se olo to fasma ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs. Me synexh kai apotelesmatikh parakoloyqhsh ths ekteleshs toy Proypologismoy sta kyriotera ypoyrgeia kai idiaiterws problhmatika, opws oloi gnwrizoyme, asfalistika tameia, alla kai sta megala nosokomeia.

Me to sxediasmo kai thn ylopoihsh mias eniaias Arxhs plhrwmhs misqodosias sto Dhmosio kai thn apokleistikh katabolh twn misqwn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn apo ayth thn Arxh, kati poy qewreitai aytonohto fysika gia ta eyrwpaika krath. Alla, gia th xwra mas, dystyxws, apaiteitai kai gi` ayto, isxyrh politikh boylhsh. Kai ayto qa exei syntoma oloklhrwqei

Ayth h kybernhsh dinei pragmatiko agwna, wste aytes oi allages na piasoyn topo kai ta apotelesmata qa ta biwsoyn oi polites sto ameso mellon.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

POLYMEROS: Parakoloyqw to teleytaio xroniko diasthma, to D.N.T., na brisketai se mia sygkroysh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, sxetika me to mhxanismo sthrijhs. Dhladh, mas leei oti ekeino kanei koymanto, ekeino qa qesei toys oroys kai toys kanones panw stoys opoioys qa daneistoyme kai apo thn allh meria, na bgainei h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai na leei akribws to idio apo th dikh ths meria. Pragmatika, mporeite na jekaqarisete, poios apo toys dyo qa kanei koymanto se ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs poy exei zhthsei h Ellada;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na tonisw to aytonohto, oti emeis prosfygame sto na yparjei, oxi prosfygame gia na energopoihqei. Emeis kataferame na yparjei enas eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs. Ayto einai megalo epiteygma apo mono toy. Kai einai epiteygma, oxi mono gia thn Ellada, alla gia oles tis xwres ths eyrwzwnhs kai kat` epektash ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Ara, prwto ayto einai ena para poly shmantiko bhma. Milame gia eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs kai mono kai ena meros aytoy toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs, periexei kai to D.N.T. Emeis, omws, exoyme na kanoyme me thn eyrwpaikh poreia, thn eyrwpaikh prooptikh ths xwras mas. Apo thn Eyrwph zhthsame na yparjei aytos o mhxanismos. Kai na epanalabw gia allh mia fora, oti den htan dikh mas epilogh to na yparxei to D.N.T. mesa se ayto to mhxanismo. Einai apofash, omws ths Eyrwphs, twn etairwn mas kai emeis, fysika, me ayth thn apofash syntassomaste, prokeimenoy na exoyme thn eggyhsh, me ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs, ths oikonomikhs poreias ths xwras mas. Ara, den tiqetai zhthma sto poios kanei koymanto. Exoyme na kanoyme me ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs. Akomh kai to plaisio einai koino kai den exoyme na kanoyme me dyo diaforetika plaisia. To plaisio toy eyrwpaikoy mhxanismoy sthrijhs einai ena, einai eniaio. Se ayto basizomaste kai einai eggyhsh. Gi` ayto milame gia ``dixty asfaleias'' kai gia tipote allo.

POLYMEROS: Epi toytoy. Yparxei dhladh periptwsh na doyme, na yparjoyn fainomena sth xwra mas, opws yparxoyn se alles xwres poy exei mpei to D.N.T. kai kanei koymanto sta oikonomika kai sthn kyriarxia ths xwras-kratoys sthn opoia exei epembei gia na thn ejygianei;

PETALWTHS: To exoyme pei polles fores, alla epeidh syzhteitai kata koron kai mporei na ekfrazetai men h agwnia twn politwn, mesa apo aytes tis syzhthseis, alla h anatrofodothsh ths metrologias kai h anatrofodothsh enos klimatos tromoy, kaqoloy den bohqaei ta symferonta ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Einai jekaqaro oti den exoyme kamia sxesh me tis periptwseis prosfyghs sto D.N.T. allwn xwrwn ths Eyrwphs h ektos Eyrwphs. Emeis epanalambanw apeyqynomaste se enan diaforetiko mhxanismo sthrijhs. Ean xreiastei na energopoihsoyme ayto ton mhxanismo sthrijhs qa ton energopoihsoyme. Den qa yparxei amesh prosfygh sto D.N.T., opws yphrje se alles xwres. Kai milame gia xwres me teleiws diaforetikes synqhkes kai me teleiws diaforetikes proypoqeseis daneismoy. Emeis oi idioi exoyme kanei mia ejairetikh proergasia oxi gia na mporesoyme na eimaste etoimoi na prosfygoyme ston eyrwpaiko mhxanismo, alla giati aytes oi apofaseis eprepe na lhfqoyn, prokeimenoy h xwra na synexisei na biwnei thn oikonomikh ths anejarthsia kai thn ypostash ths ws eqnika kyriarxh xwra. Exoyme dhmioyrghsei ena poly shmantiko ypobaqro, ara kai oi opoies apofaseis xreiastei na lhfqoyn ean energopoihsoyme ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo, den qa exoyn kamia sxesh me ayta poy blepoyme kata koron stis periptwseis twn xwrwn poy prosefygan sto D.N.T.

SPANOY: An den yparxei kati fobero h dysaresto sthn energopoihsh aytoy toy mhxanismoy, tote giati h kybernhsh kaqysterei na ypobalei to aithma kai to afhnei mexri teleytaia wra;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den exei apofasistei ean qa yparxei prosfygh. An qa zhthsoyme energopoihsh aytoy toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs. Otan kai an apofasisoyme na zhthsoyme thn energopoihsh, qa to kanoyme sto deonta xrono, th deoysa xronikh stigmh. Kai fysika, h kaqysterhsh, opws lete, den ofeiletai sto oti den qeloyme na paroyme dysaresta metra. To xrono ths energopoihshs toy mhxanismoy, ean zhthsoyme energopoihsh, ton krinoyme me bash sygkekrimenes parametroys, etsi wste na einai o pio dokimos xronos gia thn ellhnikh oikonomia.

QEODWROPOYLOS: H kybernhsh dexetai pieseis apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai to DNT gia th lhch newn metrwn h apofasizei monh ths gia ta dhmosionomika metra kai tis diarqrwtikes allages poy prowqei;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw oti oson afora tis diarqrwtikes allages, qewrhsame apo thn arxh ths diakybernhshs mas pws qa eprepe na tis prowqhsoyme, giati h politikh, h oikonomia kai h koinwnia xreiazontai allages. Kai aytes oi allages den einai mono gia na mporesoyme na daneizomaste me ton kalytero tropo, opws en prokeimenw. Einai allages poy tis xreiazetai h xwra mas synolikotera. Mesa se aytes tis allages h mazi me aytes tis allages, anagkasthkame kai phrame kai kapoia epwdyna metra, poy safestata den htan epilogh ayths ths kybernhshs. Ayta ta metra exoyn na kanoyn me mia anaprosarmogh, etsi wste na mporesoyme na petyxoyme kalyteres synqhkes daneismoy.

Emeis eimaste aytoi, oi opoioi ajiologoyme kai xarassoyme thn politikh mas. Einai, omws, mia politikh poy se diaforetikes synqhkes den qa eixame ws epilogh gia th diakybernhsh ths xwras. Einai gnwstes se oloys oi synqhkes poy brhkame, htan synqhkes poy to fasma kai to fantasma ths xrewkopias fantaze oti einai konta sth xwra mas. Ara, emeis eixame ypoxrewsh na anatajoyme ayto to poly asxhmo klima kai ayth thn katastash. Kai epeidh mexri twra exoyme kanei shmantika bhmata pros ayto, synexizoyme kai oi basikes mas epiloges einai dikes mas. Apo kei kai pera, anagkastika se kapoia zhthmata, prosarmozoyme thn politikh mas stis synqhkes poy prepei na epikrathsoyn, prokeimenoy na exoyme ena daneismo, o opoios qa einai o kalyteros kai o pio symferon gia th xwra mas.

BLABIANOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, exete pei oti entos toy 2010 den qa yparxoyn alla metra. To lete kathgorhmatika ayto;

PETALWTHS: Ayth th stigmh, ayto poy krinoyme einai oti gia to 2010 ta metra kai oi apofaseis poy phrame einai arketa. Apo kei kai pera, to programma poy periexetai sto plaisio ths staqerothtas kai ths anaptyjhs, einai trietes, opws gnwrizete. Gia to 2011 kai to 2012 qa anaprosarmozoyme thn politikh mas me bash ta dedomena toy xronoy ekeinoy. Alla epeidh, epanalambanw, emeis hdh exoyme kanei megala bhmata sth dhmosionomikh ejygiansh pros ayth thn kateyqynsh, fainetai oti den xreiazetai na paroyme alla metra.

GIANNISHS: Me dedomeno oti eipate sthn arxh oti qa kaqierwqei to eniaio misqologio sto Dhmosio kai ayto syntoma qa oloklhrwqei...

PETALWTHS: H Eniaia Arxh Plhrwmwn.

GIANNISHS: Nai. Mhpws epi ths oysias einai enas proaggelos eth peraiterw meiwsewn twn apodoxwn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn enocei twn metrwn poy prepei na lhfqoyn to 2011 kai to 2012;

PETALWTHS: Den exei kamia sxesh me metra. Edw einai ena shmantiko zhthma, to opoio, polles fores kai akomh kai twra otan to leme, kapoioi mas kathgoroyn oti eiste eji mhnes sthn kybernhsh kai giati mas anaferete tetoia problhmata. Einai omws dedomeno, gi` ayto eipa egw apo thn arxh oti qeloyme na eimaste eilikrineis, oti ta pragmatika problhmata ta apotypwnoyme kai yparxei ena meizon zhthma. Einai ena zhthma gia to opoio qa eprepe na milame. Kai to qema einai to ejhs: Den gnwrizoyme mexri shmera posoi kai poioi plhrwnontai apo to ellhniko Dhmosio. Ayto einai mia xronia paqogeneia, h opoia exei diogkwqei me thn periodo diakybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, opoy aytoi poy plhrwnontan apo to ellhniko Dhmosio empainan, oxi aplws apo paraqyra, me diafores morfes symbasewn, me ergasiakes morfes maqhteias, opws htan oi symbaseis stage poy den qa eprepe na plhrwnei to ellhniko Dhmosio, giati qa eprepe na plhrwnontai apo koinotika programmata. Pantws, to problhma einai sygkekrimeno kai dedomeno. Akribws ayto to problhma emeis antimetwpizoyme, etsi wste opoios den symperilambanetai se ayth thn eniaia arxh misqodosias, plhrwmhs twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, den qa plhrwnetai. Kanoyme mia katagrafh, h opoia eprepe na exei ginei edw kai polla xronia.

MPEQANH: Hqela na sas rwthsw gia ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs. Epeidh xqes akoysame oloi ton sosialisth k. Martin Soylts opoy xarakthrise ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo ws aparadekto, qelw to sxolio ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs gi` aytes tis ejelijeis kai sto Eyrwkoinoboylio. Kai mia eikona, poia einai h prwth sas entypwsh apo tis epafes, tis diaboyleyseis poy jekinhsan shmera me thn ellhnikh kybernhsh, oi ekproswpoi apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, thn Eyrwpaikh Kentrikh Trapeza kai to DNT;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, entypwseis den mporei akomh na yparxoyn, giati einai en ejelijei h shmerinh synanthsh. Mono sta genika mporoyme na meinoyme. Kai to geniko einai oti emeis kanoyme th doyleia mas me ton kalytero tropo. Prospaqoyme na eimaste ajiopistoi sth synergasia mas, se olh ayth th diaboyleysh poy ginetai, poy exei sygkekrimeno plaisio. To plaisio einai oi apofaseis toy ECOFIN. Apo kei kai pera, emeis prospaqoyme na eimaste oi synepesteroi ws pros ayth th diaboyleysh kai ayto kanoyme.

Einai safes -kai to exoyme pei polles fores- oti den htan dikh mas epilogh to na yparxei se ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs kai to DNT. Emeis, symmetexontas stis protaseis twn Eyrwpaiwn sosialistwn, proteiname mia lysh, mia protash kaqara eyrwpaikh. Oi apokliseis kai oi apoceis poy yparxoyn ws pros ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs, einai sebastes, alla den afora to na apologhqoyme emeis gia ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo sthrijhs shmera, giati akribws den htan dikh mas epilogh. Ayth kaq` ayth, omws, h yparjh enos mhxanismoy sthrijhs, me ayth th morfh kai anejarthta me tis enstaseis poy mporei na exei kaneis me th synqesh kai th leitoyrgia aytoy toy mhxanismoy, einai mia shmantikh epityxia.

MAKRYGIANNHS: O k. Soylts den eipe gia to DNT.

PETALWTHS: Eipe gia to mhxanismo sthrijhs.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Eipe gia ta ychla epitokia me ta opoia qa mas daneisoyn oi koinotikoi etairoi mas, ta melh ths Eyrwzwnhs, to 5%, oti ayto einai poly ychlotero apo to epitokio me to opoio ta idia ayta krath daneizontai. Kai epeidh o k. Soylts einai ejairetikos filos ths hgesias toy PASOK ej oswn gnwrizw, qelw na rwthsw, ean symmerizetai h ellhnikh kybernhsh aytes tis aitiaseis toy k. Soylts kai an tis symmerizetai, giati apodexqhke asmenws o k. Prwqypoyrgos thn protash kai thn apofash poy elaban, peripoy en kryptw, h Merkel me ton Sarkozi;

PETALWTHS: Asmenws, den apodexqhkame tipota. To eipa kai xqes kai to epanalambanw: Emeis kaname enan poly megalo agwna kai o agwnas aytos eixe mia sygkekrimenh katalhjh, na yparxei eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs. Giati o agwnas mas den ginotan gia tis leptomereies kai gia toys oroys leitoyrgias aytoy toy mhxanismoy. Ginotan gia na yparjei aytos o mhxanismos. Kai apo th stigmh poy yparxei, qewroyme oti einai ena poly shmantiko bhma kai pera apo th morfh allhleggyhs pros thn Ellada kai gia to kekthmeno ths koinotikhs allhleggyhs. Poso mallon otan apo to sygkekrimeno mhxanismo dieykolynontai oi xwres poy exoyn proswrina oikonomiko problhma, opws einai h xwra mas.

Toys oroys, toys diapragmateyomaste. Toys oroys, toys syzhthsame kai toys syzhthse olo to fasma twn xwrwn ths Eyrwzwnhs kai antilambanomaste oti den htan sto xeri mas na diamorfwsoyme emeis toys oroys leitoyrgias aytoy toy eyrwpaikoy mhxanismoy se epipedo epitokioy. Me tis dynameis poy exoyme kai me to klima anajiopistias poy eixame paralabei apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, prospaqhsame na kanoyme ta kalytera dynata, etsi wste oi morfes daneismoy na einai oi kalyteres morfes. Apo kei kai pera, to qewrhtiko kai to ideato to gnwrizoyme. Kai emeis syntassomeqa kai leme oti ta epitokia einai megala. Apo kei kai pera exoyme pragmatika dedomena kai panw se ayta ta pragmatika dedomena prospaqoyme na ylopoihsoyme ths swthria ths xwras mas se oikonomiko kai dhmosionomiko epipedo. Kai ayto qa to petyxoyme.

MARAQIAS: Eipate sthn eisagwgh sas oti h kybernhsh den prepei h den caxnei apodiopompaioys tragoys kai oti den blepei to dentro, xanontas to dasos. Hqela na rwthsw, ean ayto shmainei kati sto eswteriko politiko skhniko. Dhladh, an exei kleisei gia thn kybernhsh to qema systashs Ejetastikhs Epitrophs gia thn oikonomia.

PETALWTHS: Emeis synolikotera exoyme mia sygkekrimenh apoch: Osoi diaxeirizontai ta qemata ths oikonomias ths xwras mas exoyn thn pleon ayjhmenh eyqynh poy qa mporoyse na exei dhmosios h kratikos leitoyrgos. Opoy yparxoyn eyqynes, qa apotypwnontai. Kai epiteloys, qa katalogizontai se osoys blaptoyn to dhmosio symferon. Ayth einai h genikh arxh mas kai se ayth emmenoyme.

STRATAKHS: Hqela na rwthsw kai gia na dieykolynw thn koybenta, prin apo treis hmeres hrqe mia eidhsh apo to Aqhnaiko Praktoreio Eidhsewn, toy opoioy thn eyqynh exete, poy anaferei oti oi twn eidhsewn...

PETALWTHS: Oxi, thn eyqynh twn eidhsewn.

STRATAKHS: Oxi thn eyqynh twn eidhsewn, thn eyqynh toy Praktoreioy. En pash periptwsei, h eidhsh hrqe apo th Boylgaria kai anefere to ejhs poly aplo: O prwhn ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn ths Boylgarias parapempetai sth Dikaiosynh, dioti kapoies symbaseis poy eixe balei ston Proypologismo xwris na yparxei proegkrish toy posoy, erije ejw ton Proypologismo. Me apotelesma, apo 1,9 to elleimma ths boylgarikhs kybernhshs na paei sto 3,9 kai na dhmioyrghqei problhma sthn eyrwpaikh ths poreia. Parapemfqhke xwris tis synhqeis diadikasies tis dikes mas sth Dikaiosynh. To fernw apla pros dieykolynsh ths syzhthshs. Dhladh...

PETALWTHS: Den exoyn, profanws, to nomo peri eyqynhs ypoyrgwn poy exoyme emeis.

STRATAKHS: Dhladh, w gegone, gegone, edw sthn Ellada; Teleiwsane, sbhsane ola; Den qa anazhthqoyn eyqynes;

PETALWTHS: Akribws ayto eipa prohgoymenws, oti opoy yparxoyn zhthmata ta apotypwnoyme kai kaneis den qa diafygei toy katalogismoy twn eyqynwn.

STRATAKHS: Nai, pws omws;

PETALWTHS: To pws qa to doyme.

STRATAKHS: Na rwthsw twra gia to D.N.T.;

PETALWTHS: Gia to dentro kai oxi gia to dasos.

STRATAKHS: En pash periptwsei, edw to dentro apotelei meros toy dasoys.

PETALWTHS: Na rwthsete.

STRATAKHS: Lete oti emeis diapragmateyomaste twra me thn troika to epitokio. Mono ayto diapragmateyomaste;

PETALWTHS: Egw den eipa oti diapragmateyomaste mono to epitokio. Eipa oti ginontai diaboyleyseis se sygkekrimeno plaisio sygkekrimenwn apofasewn.

STRATAKHS: Malista. Oi oroi aytoi oi opoioi qa symfwnhqoyn h den qa symfwnhqoyn, fantazomai oti den qa entaxqoyn sto genikotero plaisio dhmioyrgias toy mhxanismoy poy apofasisan oi hgetes. Ara, aytos o mhxanismos mporei na parei allh morfh se mia xwra poy en dynamei antimetwpizei to problhma ths Elladas; Dhladh, mporei na doyme enan mhxanismo sthrijhs - giati milame gia mia katakthsh- gia thn Portogalia p.x. h gia thn Ispania poy na mhn symmetexei to D.N.T.; Kai gia na kleisw, na mhn sas apasxolhsw allo, h aisqhsh poy exete, me tis epafes poy exete prin fqasoyme stis diapragmateyseis ths Aqhnas, blepete na yparxei diafora proseggishs toy ellhnikoy zhthmatos apo to D.N.T. kai apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh;

PETALWTHS: Gia to teleytaio qa moy epitrecete na mhn sas apanthsw, giati oi diaboyleyseis ginontai akomh. Ara, to na apokthsei kaneis aisqhsh einai parakindyneymeno kai prowro.

Gia to prwto poy lete, o eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs einai sygkekrimenos kai dedomenos. Ta merh poy symmetexoyn einai sygkekrimena. Oi oroi poy qa yparxoyn kaqe fora, yparxei periptwsh na tropopoioyntai analoga me to poia xwra einai apenanti, me thn fereggyothta ths kai me tis idiaiteres synqhkes kaqe xwras, sth sygkekrimenh xronikh stigmh.

STRATAKHS: Ara, mporoyme na doyme ena mhxanismo sthrijhs, ayrio-meqayrio, gia thn Portogalia, xwris th symmetoxh toy D.N.T.

PETALWTHS: Oxi, sas eipa oti o eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs, ws pros th synqesh toy, einai dedomenos. Alla elpizoyme bebaiws, se kamia allh xwra ths Eyrwphs na mh xreiastei na prosfeygei se tetoioys mhxanismoys. Giati den qa mporei na daneizetai me ton deonta tropo stis eleyqeres agores. Ayto htan eyxh, bebaia.

NEDOS: Eipate oti den diapragmateyomaste mono to epitokio. Dhladh, aytes tis hmeres oi syzhthseis poy ginontai me thn trimerh ayth epitroph, endexomenws katalhjoyn kai se mia meiwsh toy epitokioy daneismoy mas, apo to mhxanismo sthrijhs, apo ayto to peripoy 5%;

PETALWTHS: Qa moy epitrecete na mhn mpw se leptomereies, me dedomeno oti yparxei mia ejelijh stis diaboyleyseis aytes, tis opoies parakoloyqoyme kai qa anakoinwnoyme otan prepei na anakoinwnoyme.

LASKARATOS: Apo th stigmh poy h energopoihsh toy mhxanismoy sthrijhs einai mia lysh ultima ratio, dhladh, prepei na diapistwqei oti h xrhmatodothsh apo tis agores einai aneparkhs, yparxoyn foboi sthn kybernhsh oti mia tyxon energopoihsh toy qa synista oysiastika omologia anajiopistias pros tis agores;

PETALWTHS: Ayto to qema emeis prospaqoyme na to antimetwpisoyme edw kai polloys mhnes. Emeis prospaqoyme ayto to klima ths apajiwshs ths xwras mas kai ths ektetamenhs anajiopistias, na to anatajoyme kai exoyme fqasei se ena kalo shmeio. Ayto poy prospaqoyme twra, einai na mporesoyme na daneistoyme opoy kai opws prepei, me toys kalyteroys oroys. Ara, h tyxon prosfygh se ayton ton mhxanismo sthrijhs, den shmainei oti paradexomaste, oti exoyme ws xwra, shmeia h zhthmata anajiopistias. Dystyxws, emeis ws xwra, me eyqynh ths Neas Dhmokratias dwsame tetoia shmeia edw kai polla xronia. Eimaste se ayto to epipedo se poly kalyterh baqmida ajiopistias, ap` o,ti hmaste prin apo kapoio xroniko diasthma.

TZANETATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mas eipate nwritera - an to shmeiwsa swsta- oti opoies apofaseis xreiastei na lhfqoyn den qa exoyn kamia sxesh me aytes poy blepoyme na exoyn lhfqei se xwres poy prosefygan mones toys sto D.N.T. Mporeite na ginetai ligo pio sygkekrimenos; Dhladh, poies apofaseis den qa xreiastei na lhfqoyn;

PETALWTHS: Opws kai eseis profanws kai opws oloi oi Ellhnes polites, parakoloyqoyme to teleytaio diasthma mia filologia apo pantoy, parafilologia qa thn xarakthriza tis perissoteres fores kai ena qeama toy ti egine se oses xwres parenebh to D.N.T. Zhthmata poy den qa elega oti einai antikeimenika yperbolika, einai qemata poy ta jeroyme. H plhroforhsh, bebaia, einai pantote xrhsimh, alla den mporoyme na sygkrinomaste me to ti egine se alles xwres. Kai na sas pw gia paradeigma: Hmoyn proxqes se mia thleoptikh ekpomph, ajiologotath, me synomilhtes oi opoioi htan poly ychloy epipedoy gnwsewn kai ajioprepeias kai bghke mia kyria, syndikalistria, kanontas th doyleia ths bebaiws, mexris enos shmeioy, kai afoy eipe ta aithmata toy kladoy ths, eipe oti qa ginoyme Argentinh kai qa trexoyme na kleboyme apo ta soyper market ktl. Ayto pera apo to oti einai poly yperaploysteymeno, pera apo to oti adikei toys xwroys toys opoioys nomizoyme oti antiproswpeyoyme swsta me ayto ton tropo, einai kai mia plhrhs paraplhroforhsh. Ean pisteyoyme oti o ellhnikos laos ajizei sto na ton bombardizoyme me mia ypotiqemenh enhmerwsh, oti se ligo, ean prosfygoyme se ayto ton eyrwpaiko mhxanismo, qa anoigoyme ta soyper market gia na kleboyme epeidh den qa exoyme na fame, nomizw oti einai qema eyqynhs toy kaqenos.

To poies diafores yparxoyn, qa sas pw: Emeis den qa anagkastoyme twra na milhsoyme gia perikoph dapanwn, giati hdh tis exoyme apofasisei. Den qa anagkastoyme twra na apofasisoyme symmazema twn oikonomikwn giati hdh to exoyme apofasisei. Den qa anagkastoyme na apologoymaste gia allh mia fora, giati exoyme ekatontades organismoys oi opoioi den yparxoyn, alla yparxoyn Dioikhtika Symboylia ta opoia einai xrysoplhrwmena apo toys hmeteroys, kaqe fora, proedroys kai Dioikhtika Symboylia, giati emeis doyleyoyme sygkekrimena panw s` ayto, gia na katarghqoyn h na sygxwneyqoyn. Giati emeis anagkasthkame na paroyme kai epwdyna metra gia ton aplo Ellhna polith, perikoptontas epidomata. Ara, sta perissotera poy isws qa mporoyse na mas zhthsei to D.N.T., exoyme na antiteinoyme oti emeis kanoyme allages. Megales allages, oi opoies exoyn baqos, alla kai epwdyna metra poy isws qa xreiazotan na paroyme, dystyxws omws, anagkasthkame na ta paroyme, protoy mas ta zhthsei kaneis.

TZANETATOS: Ean katalabainw kala, h diafora mas einai oti emeis prolabame to D.N.T., gi` ayto den mporoyme na sygkriqoyme me tis xwres poy phgane mones toys;

PETALWTHS: Den prolabame to D.N.T., oyte kaname proergasia gia na pame sto D.N.T. Giati, prwta ap` ola, den yparxei qema prosfyghs sto D.N.T. Emeis ayto poy kaname, einai na prospaqoyme na allajoyme th xwra mas me megales kai baqies allages, poy ean den ginotan qa synexize na yparxei ayth h aparadekth katastash sthn oikonomia mas, poy einai eis baros toy dhmosioy symferontos. Ara, exoyme dhmioyrghsei ekeinh thn ypodomh, etsi wste na ginei ena ameso symmazema ths ellhnikhs oikonomias. Ara, den xreiazetai na kanoyme perissotera apo ayta poy kanoyme, oytws h allws.

SPANOY: Ti periexomeno eixan oi epafes toy Tzwrtz Soros sthn Aqhna; Anaferontai se dhmosieyma efhmeridas.

PETALWTHS: Kai egw diabasa ena dhmosieyma oti o k. Soros ekane kapoies epafes, xwris na anaferontai proswpa. Den to gnwrizw. Den eimai ekproswpos toy k. Soros.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Symfwnei h kybernhsh me thn katastrathghsh toy dikaiwmatos sthn apergia twn naytergatwn, poy apofasise xqes to monomeles Prwtodikeio Peiraia, krinontas paranomh thn apergia;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh, oyte symfwnei, oyte diafwnei. Einai qema ths Dikaiosynhs. Ap` oso gnwrizw, yparxei mia apofash asfalistikwn metrwn, poy ekrine thn apergia ayth kai oi apofaseis, fysika, twn ellhnikwn dikasthriwn einai sebastes.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Symfwnei h kybernhsh paranomh thn 48wrh apergia twn naytergatwn;

PETALWTHS: Ayto qa to krinei to dikasthrio.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Dhmioyrgei problhma sto ergo ths kybernhshs; Dhmioyrgoyn problhma sto ergo ths kybernhshs oi apergies;

PETALWTHS: H apergia einai syntagmatiko dikaiwma. Katoxyrwmeno malista kai apo toys koinwnikoys agwnes toy Ellhna polith. To qema einai oti briskomaste se mia epoxh, h opoia einai idiaiterh, einai krisimh kai oloi oi polites analambanoyn tis eyqynes toys. Alla, gia to sygkekrimeno zhthma einai qema dikaiosynhs. Emeis den mporoyme na krinoyme ti qa eprepe na ginei me ayth thn apofash.

POLYMEROS: Se sxesh me to prohgoymeno erwthma gia dhmosieyma kai gia plhrofories, sxetika me th synanthsh poy isws na eixe h k. Katselh me anwtato stelexos ths Goldman Sachs, kai an nai, to gnwrize to Megaro Majimoy;

PETALWTHS: Epeidh kai egw rwthsa thn k. Katselh, h apanthsh ths k. Katselh emperiexei akribws o,ti egine. Me to stelexos ayto, ton k. Saderlant, nomizw, h k. Katselh gnwrizotan me thn prohgoymenh idiothta toy, ws symboylo toy Organismoy Hnwmenwn Eqnwn gia qemata metanasteyshs kai oti synanthqhke prin apo liges hmeres sthn Aqhna. Ths zhthse, ap` oso gnwrizw, na exei mia enhmerwsh gia tis anaptyjiakes prwtoboylies ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai den egine kamia syzhthsh gia thn Goldman Sachs, sthn opoia feretai oti einai stelexos. Kai ayth einai mia apanthsh poy mas kalyptei, fysika.

MARAQIAS: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw ston apohxo ths synenteyjhs toy k. Bgenopoyloy kai twn oswn eipate xqes: Yparxei qema gia thn kybernhtikh pleiochfia telika na klhqei o k. Kokkalhs sthn ejetastikh epitroph gia th Siemens; Kai ena deytero: Poy phgan telika ta lefta toy k. Bgenopoyloy, poy edwse ekeinh thn periodo sto ypoyrgeio Aigaioy gia thn anadaswsh sth Samo;

PETALWTHS: Gi` ayta poy isxyrizetai o k. Bgenopoylos yparxei analytikh apanthsh apo ton k. Shfoynakh, o opoios kathgorhmatika, opws sas eipa kai xqes, isxyrizetai -kai fysika to isxyrizetai basimotata- oti den exei parei oyte draxmh ap` ayta poy edwse h den edwse o k. Bgenopoylos, den to gnwrizw ayto. Den toy proskomise kanena parastatiko. O k. Shfoynakhs synanthqhke me ton k. Bgenopoylo, ystera apo diko toy aithma. Ton dexqhke tote ws ypoyrgos Aigaioy kai opws eixe ypoxrewsh. Syzhthsan gia tis katastrofes apo tis pyrkagies kai apo ekei kai pera diaboyleyqhke me enan dhmarxo apo th Samo. O k. Shfoynakhs oyte phre, oyte exei kamia sxesh me ta xrhmata poy isxyrizetai o k. Bgenopoylos.

Oson afora ton k. Kokkalh, oi ejetastikes epitropes apofasizoyn gia thn klhsh martyrwn, kata to dokoyn. Kai otan anaferw kata to dokoyn, apo to ti prokyptei apo tis mexri tote ejetaseis kai apo to ti yliko exoyme epejergastei, etsi wste na prokycei oti qa prepei na klhqei o sygkekrimenos martyras. Ara, h sygkekrimenh ejetastikh epitroph qa apofasisei ean xreiazetai na klhqei kai o k. Kokkalhs.

BLABIANOS: Para tayta k. Ekproswpe, o k. Bgenopoylos paroysiase apodeijh oti kateqese to 2001 sto Parakataqhkwn kai Daneiwn to poso twn 50 ekat. draxmwn. Lete oti den gnwrizei o k. Shfoynakhs, dhladh oti den paredwse kati ston k. Shfoynakh; Ayto lete eseis;

PETALWTHS: Apo oso gnwrizw kai apo thn proswpikh moy empeiria, me thn nomikh moy enasxolhsh, sto Tameio Parakataqhkwn kai Daneiwn mporei na paei na kataqesei o opoiosdhpote, otidhpote poso gia opoiadhpote aitia. To oti ta kateqese sto Parakataqhkwn kai Daneiwn o k.Bgenopoylos, oydolws mporei na syndeqei me xrhmata poy dhqen elabe o k. Shfoynakhs, etsi opws isxyrizetai o k. Bgenopoylos. Ara, nomizw, oti ayto apo mono toy ta leei ola.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, na perasoyme se ena allo qema. An exete thn kalosynh mporeite na moy peite to diko sas sxolio gia ena xqesino symban. Kata th diarkeia ths synenteyjhs Typoy poy edwse o ypoyrgos Amynas k. Benizelos, kathgorhse ton dhmosiografo toy ``PRWTOY QEMATOS'' oti me tis erwthseis toy blaptei to dhmosio symferon gia thn ypoqesh twn ypobryxiwn. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw an h kybernhsh symmerizetai tetoioy eidoys proseggiseis kai symperifores apo ypoyrgoys ths h aplws ayth h symperifora toy ypoyrgoy htan mia etsi, h aplws apetie timh sthn shmerinh epeteio pros timh toy ``gycoy''.

PETALWTHS: O ``gycos'' poly kykloforei aytes tis hmeres edw. Mallon logw ths mayrhs epeteioy...

MAKRYGIANNHS: Mhpws, logw ths kybernhshs kai ths symperiforas twn ypoyrgwn...

PETALWTHS: To shmeio ayto ...

MAKRYGIANNHS: Mhpws lew, logw ths symperiforas twn ypoyrgwn; Sygxwrhste me gia th diakoph.

PETALWTHS: To shmeio ayto den to gnwrizw sto oti yphrje aitiash oti blaptei to dhmosio symferon o k. Polatos. Gnwrizw omws thn oysia ths syzhthshs kai pragmatika ayto poy eipe o k. Benizelos - apantwntas sthn oysia - einai h pragmatikothta. Kai h pragmatikothta ayth exei na kanei me to xeirismo mias ypoqeshs, h opoia kalyptei plhrws to dhmosio symferon ths xwras.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me sygxwreite, alla moy einai ligo entypwsiako na mhn gnwrizete oti ypoyrgos xqes eipe ston dhmosiografo...

PETALWTHS: Oxi, egw exw enan dialogo...

MAKRYGIANNHS: Leei, sygkekrimena, oti me tis erwthseis toy o dhmosiografos blaptei to dhmosio symferon...

PETALWTHS: Epeidh den to briskw, gia ayto sas to lew.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kai malista, den exw mprosta moy th synenteyjh, thn exw dei, omws, pente fores. Epishs, ypainixqhke safws o k. Benizelos - giati jeroyme oloi ellhnika, oxi, isws, mono o k. Benizelos - oti me tis erwthseis toy o k. Polatos yponoei oti prepei na afeqoyme sta symferonta twn Germanwn kai twn Arabwn, poy exoyn ta nayphgeia, dhladh. Mhpws se ayta ta symferonta, qeloyn na afeqoyme kai osoi phgan sto Apoy Ntampi, gia kybernhtikh apostolh; Ean, dhladh, to afhnei ayto enas dhmosiografos, an to yponoei enas dhmosiografos, giati na mhn to yponoei h na to ennoei, akomh kalytera, mia kybernhtikh apostolh, sthn opoia symmeteixe h k. Katselh, o k. Pampoykhs kai o aderfos toy Prwqypoyrgoy, o k. Nikos Papandreoy;

PETALWTHS: H proselkysh ependysewn se ayto to dyskolo oikonomiko periballon, einai shmantikh kai malista otan ginetai me oroys ejyphrethshs toy dhmosioy symferontos. Ara, ayth h apostolh htan safestath yper toy dhmosioy symferontos. Ws pros to allo, epeidh exw toys dialogoys mprosta moy, den briskw na yparxei tetoio shmeio poy na anaferei oti o k. Benizelos kathgorhse ton dhmosiografo. Alla ayto poy mporw na sas apanthsw twra, einai h oysia. Kai h oysia einai oti ginetai kalyterh doyleia apo to ypoyrgeio Amynas sth sygkekrimenh ypoqesh kai me ton kalytero tropo.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Entajei, gia thn kalyterh doyleia apo to ypoyrgeio Amynas. Qa ta poyme. Toy eipe, epishs, oti dinei mia maxh opisqofylakhs. Entypwsiazomai ama den exete to apospasma. Ektos an den sas to esteile o k. Benizelos.

PETALWTHS: Oxi, egw mporw kai ta briskw kai monos moy. Kai den briskw tetoioys dialogoys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Aytoi oi dialogoi eginan. En pash periptwsei, profanws den qa qelate na ftasete sto shmeio, sth dyskolh qesh na ``adeiasete'' ton ypoyrgo poy symperiferetai etsi.

PETALWTHS: Alla, na sas pw kati: Mporei na exete kai thn dhmosiografikh kai thn synadelfikh eyaisqhsia sas.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kamia eyaisqhsia...

PETALWTHS: ... ayto einai qemito. Alla to na sxoliasw enan dialogo, o opoios ginetai ep eykairia mias synenteyjhs Typoy, den to qewrw kai dokimo, ektos apo to an afora thn oysia, pros apanthsh epi ths oysias.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, exete toylaxiston ypoch sas oti o k. Benizelos eipe xqes oti h nea symbash toy ypegrace h kybernhsh gia thn paralabh twn ypobryxiwn se polla qemata apoklinei ths keimenhs nomoqesias; Kai qelw na rwthsw ean isxyei etsi exoyme mia kybernhsh poy apoklinei ths keimenhs nomoqesias, telika;

PETALWTHS: Diabasa ayto poy eipe o k. Benizelos, oti h isxyoysa nomoqesia den kalyptei ayth th symbash, oxi ypo thn ennoia oti ayth h symbash einai mh nomimh h paranomh, alla oti yparxoyn oroi ayths ths symbashs, oi opoioi den emperiexontai sthn isxyoysa nomoqesia. Kai aytoi oi oroi einai shmantikoi. Einai oroi yper toy dhmosioy symferontos kai akribws gia ayto ton logo ayth h symbash qa proslabei kai ton typo toy typikoy nomoy, poy shmainei oti h nomimothta qa diasfalistei gia ayth th symbash me ton kalytero tropo. H apoklish apo thn isxyoysa nomoqesia den shmainei oti einai paranomh h symbash. Shmainei oti qa prepei, elleicei nomoqetikhs problechs gia sygkekrimena zhthmata, na yparxei nomoqetikh symplhrwsh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Entajei, synhqws apoklish leme apo thn ``pisw porta'' thn paranomia. En pash periptwsei k. Ekproswpe, epeidh qelete kai thn oysia. Ayto to ypobryxio poy gernei - poy lene oti gernei - kai gia to opoio exei ginei polys logos, eprepe na paralhfqei ton Ianoyario toy 2006, symfwna me thn arxikh symbash. Synebh, loipon, to ejhs para poly aplo: h prohgoymenh kybernhsh dia toy prohgoymenoy ypoyrgoy k. Meimarakh to parelabe. Symbainoyn, loipon, dyo pragmata. H to ypobryxio einai entajei kai kakws den to parelabe o k. Meimarakhs kai to paralambanei ayth h kybernhsh kai ara o k. Meimarakhs sterhse ena xrhsimo ergaleio apo thn eqnikh amyna ths xwras h symbainei to allo, dhladh eixe dikio o k. Meimarakhs poy den to parelabe kai kakws to paralambanete. Ti apo ta dyo; Kai an exete eseis dikio qa pate ton k. Meimarakh se Ejetastikh Epitroph gia aytes toy tis eyqynes; Na mhn dinei, dhladh, ena xrhsimo ergaleio gia thn eqnikh amyna ths xwras;

PETALWTHS: Egw, ayto poy exw na pw - epeidh to exoyme kai allh fora syzhthsei to qema - einai oti ayto to ypobryxio gia na paralhfqei me toys kalyteroys oroys einai qema mias genikoterhs symfwnias, den einai mono to ypobryxio ayto. Yparxei apofash kai isxyrh gnwmodothsh empeirognwmonwn, oi opoioi lene oti to ypobryxio ayto einai ajiopisto. Apo kei kai pera yparxei mia boylhsh gia metapwlhsh. Ayta omws emperiexontai sto xeirismo ths kybernhshs gia thn xrhsh aytwn twn systhmatwn kai sygkekrimena twn ypobryxiwn me oroys kalyterhs ejyphrethshs toy dhmosioy symferontos.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Me sygxwreite, ean einai ajiopisto to ypobryxio, den qa prepei na anazhthqoyn eyqynes toy k. Meimarakh tote; Giati den kanete mia Ejetastikh Epitroph;

PETALWTHS: H Ejetastikh Epitroph den ginetai gia otidhpote peftei sthn antilhch mas. Yparxoyn sygkekrimenoi nomoi. Ean omws yparxoyn eyqynes kai opoy yparxoyn, epanalambanw oti genikh arxh mas einai na katalogizontai.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kai ena teleytaio. Apo th stigmh poy exete th boylhsh gia metapwlhsh, h opoia prokyptei apo to gegonos oti yparxei ekei ena problhma, qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean qa metatrecete thn kybernhsh kai to ypoyrgeio Amynas se emporikh antiproswpeia twn Germanwn, na agorazei kai na metapwlei amesws se ypobryxia.

PETALWTHS: Emporikh antiproswpeia shmainei oti ejyphretoyme sygkekrimena symferonta me kapoio ofelos, isws kai diko mas. Ayto, isws na ginotan se alles epoxes. O xeirismos toy oloy zhthmatos apo th shmerinh kybernhsh, kaqe allo para emporikh antiproswpeia einai. Giati toys oroys poy bazoyme, akomh kai se ayth th symbash poy eipate prohgoymenws, einai oroi oi opoioi einai pros to dhmosio symferon, einai oroi ajiologotatoi kai prwtognwroi gia thn agora oplikwn systhmatwn. Gnwrizoyme oloi ti ginotan se ayto to epipedo. Emeis eimaste apofasismenoi na to stamathsoyme. Apo kei kai pera, omws, h metapwlhsh oplikwn systhmatwn h ploiwn h ypobryxiwn einai mia meqodeysh poy einai nomimotath kai den shmainei oti ginomaste emporikoi antiproswpoi kanenos.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Qa anakoinwsei shmera o Prwqypoyrgos thn arsh toy Kampotaz kata th diarkeia ths omilias toy sto SETE;

PETALWTHS: Mexri stigmhs den exoyme kamia anakoinwsh. Ean ginei, qa enhmerwqeite.

Sas eyxaristw.


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