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BRIEFING 18-03-96

Greek Government Press Release Directory

From: "Hellenic Ministry of Press and Mass Media" <pegasus@compulink.gr>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS 18.3.96

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO k. DHMHTRH REPPA

Kalhmera sas. Kalh ebdomada.
* Opws gnwrizete, shmera to apogeyma (wra 18.00) qa arxisei sth Boylh h syzhthsh pro hmerhsias diatajews se epipedo Arxhgwn kommatwn gia ta qemata ths Diakybernhtikhs.
* Ayrio stis 11.00 to prwi (19/3) o Prwqypoyrgos qa synanthqei me antiproswpeia ths PASEGES.
* Sas einai epishs gnwsth h shmerinh synanthsh (wra 12.00 m.m.) toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton Amerikano Presbeyth sthn Aqhna, k. Tomas Nails, en ocei kai toy tajidioy toy Prwqypoyrgoy stis Hnwmenes Politeies.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, yparxei kai allh epistolh toy k. Arsenh pros ton k. Prwqypoyrgo; Giati, par'olo poy diaceydetai kai apo tis dyo pleyres, epimenoyn kapoies plhrofories oti yparxei kai allh epistolh.

REPPAS: H erwthsh sas einai an yparxei kapoia epistolh toy k. Arsenh pros ton k. Prwqypoyrgo;

GARGALAKOS: Malista. Ektos ekeinhs poy zhtoyse thn ektakth sygklhsh toy KYSEA.

REPPAS: Prepei na sas pw oti yparxoyn polles epistoles tis opoies lambanei apo Ypoyrgoys o k. Prwqypoyrgos. Polloi Ypoyrgoi qewroyn pws gia qemata armodiothtas toys prepei na ekqesoyn graptws tis apoceis toys, doqentos oti - as moy epitrapei na pw - ston grapto logo apotypwnontai plhrofories h stoixeia h skeceis kai protaseis, oi opoies etsi mporoyn kalytera na ejetasqoyn kai na ajiologhqoyn. Sta plaisia ayta kai o k. Arsenhs exei steilei epistolh ston k. Prwqypoyrgo, h opoia einai plhroforiakoy xarakthra kai anaferetai akribws stis drasthriothtes, tis opoies anaptyssei kata thn teleytaia periodo h Toyrkia sthn perioxh kai sto Aigaio genikotera.

MAYROS: Zhtaei sygklhsh toy KYSEA;

REPPAS: Oxi. Ayth h epistolh - gia na mhn yparxei paranohsh, para to oti xarakthrisqhke ws deyterh - einai epistolh poy xronikws exei prohghqei ths epistolhs gia thn opoia exoyme kanei logo tis prohgoymenes hmeres.

GARGALAKOS: Exete thn aisqhsh - h erwthsh moy ayth einai synexeia ths prwths - sthn Kybernhsh oti o k. Arsenhs epiqymei na katagrafei tis apoceis toy kai ws ek toytoy yparxei kapoio problhma endokybernhtiko;

REPPAS: O k. Arsenhs, opws kaqe Ypoyrgos, einai ypeyqynos gia ton tropo me ton opoio paroysiazei tis apoceis toy, tis plhrofories toy. Apeyqynetai ston Prwqypoyrgo etsi, wste na yparxei sta plaisia ths synergasias me ton Prwqypoyrgo, h kalyterh dynath epikoinwnia. Kai pisteyw, oti kai me ton k. Arsenh o k. Prwqypoyrgos exei stenh synennohsh kai synergasia, h opoia den exei kammia sxesh me ayta ta opoia anaferontai h didontai sth dhmosiothta. Einai akribws mia, mesw ths epistolhs, paraqesh plhroforiakwn stoixeiwn pros ton Prwqypoyrgo, gia qemata ta opoia aforoyn tis drasthriothtes poy aneptyje h Toyrkia thn teleytaia periodo sthn perioxh ths Imias kai genikotera sto Aigaio.

GARGALAKOS: Den problhmatizei thn Kybernhsh ayth h biomhxania epistolwn;

REPPAS: Thn Kybernhsh qa thn problhmatize, an yphrxe adynamia epikoinwnias twn Ypoyrgwn metajy toys h twn Ypoyrgwn me ton k. Prwqypoyrgo. To oti polloi Ypoyrgoi, arketoi Ypoyrgoi, me epistoles enhmerwnoyn ton k. Prwqypoyrgo gia qemata ths armodiothtas toys, einai mia praktikh synhqismenh h opoia akoloyqeitai pantote. Kai bebaia akoloyqeitai kai sta plaisia ths shmerinhs Kybernhshs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poioi einai aytoi oi Ypoyrgoi, kyrie Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Einai kai alloi Ypoyrgoi poy exoyn steilei epistoles ston k. Prwqypoyrgo. Qelete na anaferw onomata sygkekrimena; Mporw na anaferw - an qelete - ayth thn wra epilektikws ton k. Papantwnioy, ton k. Papandreoy. Bebaiws yparxei aytoy toy eidoys h paraqesh stoixeiwn pros ton Prwqypoyrgo apo Ypoyrgoys gia qemata armodiothtas toys. Ayto einai kati poly logiko kai synhqismeno. Kai epanalambanw kai pali: Ston grapto logo apotypwnontai stoixeia kai plhrofories ta opoia kalytera mporoyn na ajiologhqoyn afoy ejetasqoyn. O proforikos logos exei, bebaiws, th dynamh kai thn ajia toy, alla kai o graptos logos exei kai aytos th shmasia toy.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, poios einai o logos ths dhmosiopoihshs aytwn twn epistolwn metajy toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai twn Ypoyrgwn;

REPPAS: Den nomizw oti yparxei logos na dhmosiopoioyntai aytes oi epistoles. Exoyme pei oti h synergasia twn Ypoyrgwn metajy toys h twn Ypoyrgwn me ton k. Prwqypoyrgo den einai panta qema pros dhmosia syzhthsh.

SOYGLERHS: Yparxei krish stis sxeseis metajy toy k. Shmith kai toy k. Arsenh;

REPPAS: Den yparxei kammia apolytws krish me thn ennoia poy prosdidete eseis s'ayth th lejh. Den yparxei kammia krish. Yparxei synergasia kai yparxei synennohsh. Yparxoyn apoceis oi opoies diatypwnontai, protaseis kai eishghseis oi opoies ginontai kai lambanontai oi apofaseis.

SOYGLERHS: Enhmerwnei o k. Shmiths ton k. Arsenh gia eqnika kai stratiwtika qemata; Giati dhmosieymata anaferoyn oti einai dysaresthmenos o k. Arsenhs gia thn plhroforhsh poy exei.

REPPAS: Yparxei synexhs epikoinwnia kai poly kalh synennohsh kai synergasia.

MOYRTZHS: Ws pros thn progenesterh epistolh toy k. Arsenh pros ton k. Prwqypoyrgo, h sygkekrimenh epistolh eixe apodekth mono ton Prwqypoyrgo h apodektes kai alla kybernhtika organa;

REPPAS: Ej oswn gnwrizw, h epistolh ayth exei koinopoihqei kai ston k. Pagkalo.

MAYROS: Milame gia thn progenesterh.

REPPAS: Milame gia th deyterh, h opoia telikws htan prwth.

KACAMPELHS: O Prwqypoyrgos apanthse sth sygkekrimenh epistolh;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos den exei apanthsei sth sygkekrimenh epistolh. Thn exei melethsei. Kai epanalambanw kai pali oti h epistolh ayth den apeyqynqhke ston k. Prwqypoyrgo epi tw skopw na yparjei apanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Apeyqynqhke ston k. Prwqypoyrgo prokeimenoy na ton enhmerwsei gia sygkekrimena stoixeia aforwnta th drasthriothta poy anaptyssei h Toyrkia thn teleytaia periodo sthn perioxh kai sto Aigaio genikotera. Kai qa einai antikeimeno syzhthshs ta stoixeia ayta ta opoia perilambanontai sthn epistolh toy k. Arsenh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Antikeimeno syzhthshs poy kai me poion;

REPPAS: Antikeimeno syzhthshs oxi bebaia sthn agora, alla sta plaisia ths Kybernhshs: toy Prwqypoyrgoy me toys Ypoyrgoys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh, o Prwqypoyrgos qa kalesei ton k. Arsenh...

REPPAS: Ma, exoyn epikoinwnia, kyrie Stamatopoyle. Den xreiazetai...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Tote den xreiazetai na stelnoyn epistoles.

REPPAS: Ma, oi epistoles - epanalambanw gia pollosth fora - exoyn th shmasia kai thn ajia poy exei ena eggrafo, kaq'oti ston grapto logo tetoioy eidoys stoixeia prepei na apotypwno- ntai, wste na ejetazontai kai na ajiologoyntai kalytera. Ayto giati kanei entypwsh;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pws den kanei entypwsh;

REPPAS: Einai prwtofanes, eggrafws na diatypwnontai kapoies apoceis h na paratiqentai stoixeia kai plhrofories, ta opoia prepei na tiqentai ypoch toy Prwqypoyrgoy h allwn Ypoyrgwn; Den einai prwtofanes. Einai synhqismeno kai qewrw oti einai poly logiko na ginetai ayto se mia Kybernhsh, h opoia leitoyrgei eyryqma.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ma, kyrie Ypoyrge, na synedriazei to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio,na synedriazei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph, na syzhtoyntai mesa sta organa ayta ta eqnika qemata kai meta na toy stelnei kai epistoles toy Prwqypoyrgoy o k. Arsenhs;

REPPAS: Ma, kyrie Stamatopoyle, h epikoinwnia mesw epistolwn einai mia diadikasia h opoia pantote akoloyqeito kai akoloyqeitai kai twra. Kai exei th shmasia toy o proforikos logos, bebaiws, alla ton exei kai o graptos logos, prokeimenoy na paratiqentai kapoia stoixeia ta opoia einai pros ejetash kai ajiologhsh. O graptos logos exei kai aytos th qesh toy.

SKOYRHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sthn epistolh ayth toy k. Arsenh ekfrazetai problhmatismos sxetika me to status quo ante sthn perioxh ths Imia;

REPPAS: Sthn epistolh ayth o k. Arsenhs - epanalambanw - paraqetei stoixeia ta opoia aforoyn tis drasthriothtes poy anaptyssei h Toyrkia thn teleytaia periodo.

SKOYRHS: Dhladh, den ekfrazetai problhmatismos;

REPPAS: O k. Arsenhs epixeirei, afoy dwsei aytes tis plhrofories, na proxwrhsei se mia prwth ermhneia toy poioi einai oi logoi oi opoioi odhgoyn sthn anaptyjh apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias ayths ths drasthriothtas ths. Den ginetai kapoia ektetamenh analysh, etsi opws eseis thn yponoeite sthn erwthsh sas.

MAYROS: H apostolh epistolwn apo meroys Ypoyrgwn pros ton Prwqypoyrgo ginetai mono gia na katoxyrwqei o apostoleas se sygkekrimenes qeseis toy - kyriws diafwnies - h gia na piesei ton Prwqypoyrgo na prowqhqei ena nomosxedio. Pote allote den syntassontai epistoles. Akomh exoyme kaqe Trith kai Paraskeyh taktikh synedriash twn kybernhtikwn organwn (doja tw Qew!). Kai den antilambanomai - eilikrina sas legw - tis ermhneies poy dwsate. Den einai peistikes.

REPPAS: Ayth einai h analysh poy kanete eseis kai to symperasma sto opoio katalhgete. H erwthsh sas poia einai;

MAYROS: Pisteyw oti h ermhneia sas einai ayqaireth.

REPPAS: H erwthsh sas poia einai; An dexomai oti h ermhneia poy dinw, einai peistikh h oxi;

MAYROS: Oxi, ayth poy dinw egw oti einai ayqaireth.

REPPAS: H ermhneia poy dinete, den antapokrinetai sta pragmata. Doqentos oti perasame mia ellhno-toyrkikh krish kai prepei oi synepeies oi opoies yparxoyn meta apo aythn thn ellhno- toyrkikh krish na ajiologhqoyn, na ejetasqoyn. Sta plaisia ayta, o Ypoyrgos Eqnikhs Amynas qewrhse oti prepei eggrafws na kataqesei tis apoceis toy, wste na einai ypoch toy Prwqypoyrgoy ta stoixeia ayta. Allwste, yphrxe syzhthsh metajy toy k. Prwqypoyrgoy kai toy k. Ypoyrgoy kai diapistwqhke oti pragmatika prepei eggrafws tetoioy eidoys stoixeia na katatiqentai.

MAYROS: Gia na pei sto mellon "egw sas ta eixa pei".

REPPAS: Oxi. Gia na yparxei kalyterh ajiologhsh, na ginontai antikeimeno meleths ayta ta stoixeia. Dioti o proforikos logos - epanalambanw gia pollosth fora - einai enas logos o opoios den exei isws th diarkeia poy exei o graptos logos, prokeimenoy na ejetaseis tetoioy eidoys stoixeia.

MAYROS: Ma, throyntai praktika sta kybernhtika organa, kyrie Ypoyrge. Ti leme twra;

REPPAS: Ma, den syzhthqhke sta kybernhtika organa ektetamena ayto to qema, kyrie Mayro. Ayta einai qemata ta opoia kaqhmerinws syzhtoyntai me diaforoys tropoys: thlefwnikws, proforikws kata tis synanthseis kai bebaiws mesw ths antallaghs epistolwn.

KIAOS: Apantwntas prohgoymenws se erwthsh synadelfoy gia to an yparxei krish stis sxeseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Arsenh, apanthsate oti den yparxei krish opws thn antilambanesqe, alla exoyn synergasia k.lp. Ti ennooysate me tis lejeis "opws thn antilambanesqe";

REPPAS: Apanthsa se sygkekrimenh erwthsh thn opoia kai eseis qesate.

KIAOS: An qymamai kala, h erwthsh toy synadelfoy htan an yparxei krish stis sxeseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Arsenh...

REPPAS: Kai apanthsa oti den yparxei krish, me thn ennoia poy prosdidete eseis s'ayth th lejh. Kai prosqesa oti tetoia krish den yparxei. Yparxei synergasia kai synennohsh.

KIAOS: Gia na to jekaqarisoyme, kyrie Ypoyrge...

REPPAS: Parakalw, kyrie Kiao.

KIAOS: ... pws antilambanomeqa oti den yparxei krish, ti shmainei dhladh "krish", na to pame ennoiologika, ayto prospaqw na...

REPPAS: "Krish" (fantazomai, gia na mpoyme kai se tetoia qemata), noeitai h adynamia epikoinwnias, h adynamia synennohshs, h adynamia synergasias h oi diaforetikes apoceis oi opoies odhgoyn se rhjh tis dyo pleyres. Tetoioy eidoys fainomeno den yparxei stis sxeseis synergasias toy Prwqypoyrgoy me toys Ypoyrgoys toy. Kai me ton k. Arsenh.

KIAOS: Parakatw milhsate gia ermhneia toy k. Arsenh twn drasthriothtwn ths Toyrkias. H ermhneia poy kanei o k. Arsenhs, einai diaforetikh apo thn ermhneia poy epikratei sthn Kybernhsh kai ston Prwqypoyrgo;

REPPAS: O k. Arsenhs - epanalambanw kai pali - ekane mia prwth proseggish, diatypwse kapoies prwtes skeceis gia thn drasthriothta poy anaptyssei h Toyrkia sthn perioxh. Ayto loipon perihlqe se gnwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ajiologeitai.

KIAOS: Epitrecte moy na epimeinw: Ean h ermhneia poy eipate oti dinei o k. Arsenhs gia th drasthriothta ths Toyrkias einai diaforetikh apo thn ermhneia kai thn ektimhsh poy kanei h Kybernhsh kai o Prwqypoyrgos.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh anagnwrizei oti yparxei problhma stis ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis, to opoio akribws ofeiletai sthn epiqetikh politikh, thn opoia akoloyqei h Toyrkia. Kai ayth akribws einai h bash poy dexomaste oloi ws aitia, gia to oti anaptyssetai ayth h drasthrioth- ta kai dhmioyrgoyntai aytoy toy eidoys oi entaseis sthn perioxh. O k. Arsenhs den diatypwse ena oloklhrwmeno symperasma. O k. Arsenhs epeshmane akribws ena fainomeno. Kai ayto to fainomeno apotelei koinh peira olwn mas. Den einai mono toy k. Arsenh entypwsh. Einai entypwsh olwn mas oti h Toyrkia anaptyssei mia tetoia drasthriothta sthn perioxh.

KIAOS: Kai mia teleytaia erwthsh, se sxesh me thn prohgoymenh epistolh h opoia xronika einai deyterh: Mas eixate pei oti parepemce o k. Shmiths to qema legontas ston k. Arsenh "phgaine na syzhthseis me ton k. Pagkalo". Poia htan h tyxh ths parapomphs ayths; Syzhthsan oi kyrioi Arsenhs kai Pagkalos;

REPPAS: Exoyn se polles eykairies synanthqei o k. Arsenhs kai o k. Pagkalos. Kai exoyn syzhthsei kai ayto to qema.

KIAOS: Anaferomai sto sygkekrimeno ayto qema.

REPPAS: Exei kleisei to qema. Qewroyme oti to qema ayto exei kleisei.

PARIS: Ti qa ginei me ton poimena, kyrie Ypoyrge; Qa toy dwsei tis eggyhseis to ellhniko kratos na mporesei na paei na parei ta probata toy apo thn Imia; Mia poy leme oti h Imia einai ellhniko edafos.

REPPAS: Ma, asfalws einai ellhniko edafos. Kai h Ellada askei ta eqnika kai kyriarxika ths dikaiwmata sth sygkekrimenh perioxh. O sygkekrimenos boskos eixe thn prwtoboylia na proseggisei to nhsi. Fobhqeis, isws, epestrece xwris na dexqei apeiles kai xwris oydeis na ton periorisei. Kai s'ayto eimai kathgorhmatikos.

KOGIANNHS: Ceydetai, dhladh;

REPPAS: Parakalw, na qetete sygkekrimenh erwthsh, wste na dinw kai egw sygkekrimenh apanthsh. O k. Paris ejakoloyqei na exei to logo.

PARIS: Oi Toyrkoi apeilhsan oti qa ton skotwsoyn, toylaxiston me ta legomena toy. H ellhnikh aktaiwros kai to polemiko skafos eipan oti den mporoyn na toy dwsoyn eggyhseis gia thn asfaleia toy. Qa hqela thn antidrash ths Kybernhshs.

REPPAS: H antidrash ths Kybernhshs sta legomena toy sygkekrimenoy poimenos einai oti oi ermhneies poy dinei gia ta symbanta einai teleiws antifatikes. Kai qa moy epitrecete na pw oti kai oi logoi toy einai meiwmenhs ajiopistias, wste den prepei na ejagoyme plhrh symperasmata - kata ton kathgorhmatiko kai apolyto tropo poy polloi ta exoyn ejagagei - giati h dihghsh toy sygkekrimenoy boskoy den antapokrinetai sta pragmata.

KACAMPELHS: Dyo erwthseis ep'aytoy, k. Ypoyrge: Eipate "xwris na ton exei periorisei kaneis". Prwth erwthsh: Ayto afora sto sygkekrimeno peristatiko h olo to teleytaio dimhno;

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei s'ayto to qema kat'epanalhch se sxetikes erwthseis poy exoyn teqei.

KACAMPELHS: Den gnwrizete epomenws an afora olo to teleytaio dimhno.

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei kat'epanalhch se sxetikes erwthseis gi'ayto to qema k. Kacampelh. Gia th dynatothta episkechs sto nhsi diaforwn paragontwn. Edw me exoyn rwthsei an mporei kapoios na ycwsei th shmaia, an mporei o k. Sabbopoylos na dwsei synaylia ...

KACAMPELHS: Den lew gia th shmaia...

REPPAS: Exoyn teqei kat'epanalhch aytes oi erwthseis. Kai parakalw para poly, mhn epanerxomaste se qemata ta opoia qewrw oti exoyn kleisei ton kyklo toys, toylaxiston ws pros to na prosferontai se dhmosia syzhthsh san ayth poy ginetai edw.

KACAMPELHS: Gia ton sygkekrimeno kyrio, o opoios mporei na einai o,ti einai, egw den yperaspizomai ton sygkekrimeno kyrio...

REPPAS: Oyte egw ton kathgorw. Aplws sxoliazw ton tropo me ton opoio paroysiazei ta symbanta.

KACAMPELHS: Prin pame sta sxolia, epi twn sygkekrimenwn gegonotwn: otan leme oti den ton periorizei kaneis, afora to sygkekrimeno peristatiko h olo to diasthma meta thn krish ths Imias; Gnwrizete;

REPPAS: Ayth einai h mia erwthsh. H allh erwthsh;

KACAMPELHS: Apanthste prwta s'ayth.

REPPAS: Ma, apanthsa prin, k. Kacampelh, oti h dynatothta ayth yparxei epeidh akribws einai dedomeno kai safes to kaqestws se ayth thn perioxh.

KACAMPELHS: Deyterh erwthsh, ef'oson den apantate ...

REPPAS: Mh bgazete tetoia symperasmata. Mporeite na ta grafete. Kai parakoloyqw ta grafomena sas me megalh prosoxh. Sas timw kai einai dikaiwma sas na kanete tis kriseis sas. Alla, parakalw poly otan meta apo mia apanthsh dikh moy, bgazete ayto to symperasma, einai san na eklambanete pws symfwnw kai egw sto diko sas symperasma.

KACAMPELHS: Den symfwneite. H deyterh erwthsh: To peristatiko, to qema poy exei na kanei me ton k. Bezyropoylo poy einai mia eidikh periptwsh boskoy, o opoios exei ekei pera gidia, probata, zwa. Den einai oyte caras, oyte perastikos, oyte Dhmarxos na paei na ycwsei shmaia. Exei probata, phgainei, qelei na anebei epanw sth braxonhsida. To sygkekrimeno qema poy exei na kanei me ayton ton kyrio kai th drasthriothta toy, me ton k. Bezyropoylo, exei apasxolhsei thn Kybernhsh to teleytaio dimhno;

REPPAS: Thn Kybernhsh thn apasxolei to pws qa perifroyrhsei ta kyriarxika mas dikaiwmata sthn perioxh. Kai nomizw oti h Kybernhsh proaspizetai ta eqnika symferonta me to na yparxei ekei h aparaithth paroysia dynamewn poy diasfalizoyn akribws ta kyriarxika mas dikaiwmata. Oles de aytes oi periptwseis idiwtwn poy exoyn symferonta na episkeptontai th sygkekrimenh braxonhsida, einai periptwseis poy mas apasxoloyn. Qa yperaspistoyme to dikaiwma toys ayto kai ta idiwtika toys symferonta. Alla bebaiws prepei -kai to antilambanesqe oloi fantazomai- na akoloyqoyme mia tetoia politikh, h opoia qa askeitai me ypeyqyno, syneto kai apofasitiko tropo kai den qa odhgei se megala problhmata, epeidh kapoioi eite apo ekdhloymeno h ypotiqemeno patriwtismo h yperpatriwtismo afenos, eite apo kinhseis astoxes kai epipolaies mias stigmhs, qa dhmioyrgoyn problhmata kai qa mas odhgoyn se nees peripeteies h emplokes.

KACAMPELHS: Ws ek toytoy kai gia na mhn epanerxomai k. Ypoyrge, h Kybernhsh me tis kratikes yphresies qa bohqhsei ton k. Bezyropoylo na paei estw na parei ta zwntana toy apo ekei;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh me tis kratikes yphresies, oxi mono gia ton k. Bezyropoylo, alla kai gia alloys, eite boskoys eite carades, kanei kai qa kanei ta panta wste na yperaspistei kai ta idiwtika toys symferonta.

MPERMPERAKHS: Dyo erwthseis: Poy apodidei h Kybernhsh tis antifatikes ermhneies kai thn meiwmenh ajiopistia toy sygkekrimenoy boskoy;

REPPAS: Sto poly aplo gegonos oti oydeis allos epibebaiwnei ta legomena toy. Einai o monos o opoios paroysiazei ayth thn ekdoxh gegonotwn. Den prokyptei oyte apo tis yphresies mas, oyte apo sympolites h sygkatoikoys toy kyrioy Bezyropoyloy, oi opoioi exoyn analoga me ayton idiwtika symferonta.

MPERMPERAKHS: Poy to apodidete rwtaw.

REPPAS: Ayto einai qema to opoio parakalw para poly na to ereynhsete apeyqynomenoi ston k. Bezyropoylo. Den prokeitai na kanw egw analysh ths proswpikothtas toy k. Bezyropoyloy edw. Egw sas lew ti einai ayto poy prokyptei toso apo tis diadikasies twn dikwn mas yphresiwn, twn kybernhtikwn kratikwn yphresiwn, ws symperasma afenos, oso kai apo tis apoceis tis opoies ekqetoyn sympatriwtes, sympolites toy k. Bezyropoyloy poy exoyn kai aytoi idiwtika symferonta sthn perioxh, af'eteroy.

MPERMPERAKHS: Mporeite na mas analysete ligo, ti ennoeite "toyrkikh drasthriothta" eite opws thn ekfrazei o k. Arsenhs, eite opws thn ekfrazei h Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: H toyrkikh drasthriothta, k. Mpermperakh, sthn perioxh einai synhqws mia drasthriothta exqrikh pros thn Ellada, enw qa mporoyse na einai mia drasthriothta h opoia qa hto apolytws symfwnh me to Dieqnes Dikaio kai th dieqnh ennomh tajh. Dystyxws, h toyrkikh drasthriothta gia thn opoia miloyme kai s'aythn anaferomaste, einai mia proklhtikh, epiqetikh symperifora pros thn Ellada, thn opoia prepei oloi, peran ths Ellados, na thn laboyn sobara ypoch toys, giati dhmioyrgei problhmata astaqeias sthn perioxh.

KOXIN: Ep'aytoy. Dhladh ti akribws ennoeite; Parabiaseis enaerioy xwroy;

REPPAS: Ennooyme akribws tis parabiaseis enaerioy kai qalassioy xwroy. Kai ayto einai ena fainomeno to opoio exei labei mia tetoia ektash poy den mporei na perasei aparathrhto.

DHMAKAS: Ap'osa eipate, prokyptei oti o boskos mallon efyge fobhqeis kai efyge oikeioqelws. Meta thn apoxwrhsh, yphrje epikoinwnia twn kybernhtwn toy ellhnikoy polemikoy skafoys kai ths toyrkikhs aktaiwroy kata thn opoia oi Toyrkoi eipan oti den symfwnoyn h den qa symfwnoysan me mia epikeimenh apobibash toy boskoy sto nhsaki;

REPPAS: Den prokyptei na yparxei enas dialogos me ena poly safes periexomeno, wste na mporoyme na to sxoliasoyme. Oydeis mporei na apokleisei, giati s'aytes tis periptwseis ginetai enas tetoios dialogos, na exei ginei dialogos kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh. Twra, to ti eipan oi Toyrkoi: fantazomai oti oi Toyrkoi se kaqe periptwsh qa legoyn ta idia akribws pragmata. Oti einai sth dikh toys epikrateia h toys anhkei to miso Aigaio, gia na mhn pw kai h mish Ellada sto synolo ths. Den nomizw omws oti ayto to opoio anaferetai oti eipan oi Toyrkoi, prepei emeis na to dexqoyme ws bash gia mia syzhthsh, giati den qa perimename tipote allo na poyn oi Toyrkoi, oxi mono sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, alla genikotera se analoges periptwseis. Einai gnwsth h politikh toys kai oi epidiwjeis toys.

KACAMPELHS: Mporeite na mas peite kati allo: Apasxolhse thn Kybernhsh to qema Bezyropoyloy se diplwmatiko epipedo;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh ejetazei ta pragmatika peristatika, wste na analabei prwtoboylies kai na probei se ekeinoys toys diplwmatikoys xeirismoys oi opoioi einai anagkaioi.

KACAMPELHS: Den milaw gia twra kai sto ejhs. Apo edw kai pisw, mexri twra exei apasxolhsei thn Kybernhsh...;

REPPAS: Thn Kybernhsh -apanthsa kai prin k. Kacampelh- thn apasxolei monimws peran ths proaspishs twn kyriarxikwn mas dikaiwmatwn sthn perioxh kai h diasfalish twn symferontwn idiwtwn poy drasthriopoioyntai se ekeinh thn perioxh.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Mporeite na jekaqarisete kati; Eipate oti h Kybernhsh qa analabei diplwmatikes prwtoboylies, erwtwmenos gia to qema toy k. Bezyropoyloy...

REPPAS: Eipa: ejetazei ta pragmatika peristatika, wste an yparxei logos na probei se oles ekeines tis prwtoboylies kai toys xeirismoys poy einai anagkaioi.

GARGALAKOS: Yparxei kai h allh pleyra. H Kybernhsh, to kratos, mporei kai prepei, deixnei sobarothta ayto, na epitrepei se memonwmenoys polites na askoyn kommati ths ejwterikhs politikhs ths h ena kommati poy exei sxesh me thn amyna ths xwras;

REPPAS: H qesh ths Kybernhshs einai gnwsth kai exei diatypwqei. Bebaiws ta qemata ejwterikhs kai amyntikhs politikhs einai shmantika qemata kai den einai qemata spasmwdikwn energeiwn h prwtoboyliwn poy analambanoyn idiwtes. Apo ekei kai pera, opoioi flegontai apo patriwtismo kai qeloyn me kapoio tropo na ton ekfrasoyn, pisteyw oti einai xrhsimoi, toys timoyme gi'ayto, alla den prepei na paradidoyn ayth th floga toys thn patriwtikh, sto bwmo ths dhmioyrgias entypwsewn. Einai gnwsto oti yparxoyn problhmata kai prepei ta problhmata ayta na ta antimetwpizoyme me synesh kai apofasistikothta. Ayth einai h qesh ths Kybernhshs.

ELENOPOYLOS: Thn Paraskeyh h toyrkikh pleyra enhmerwse armodiws thn E.E. dia ths troika oti en pash periptwsei den skopeyei na prosfygei se kapoia dieqnh diaithsia gia qemata toy Aigaioy. Qa hqela na sxoliasete ayth th qesh ths toyrkikhs pleyras, kaqws epishs kai kati poy afhse na diafanei o ekproswpos ths Toyrkias sthn Koinothta oti en pash periptwsei, exoyme na kanoyme me mia amfisbhtoymenh perioxh...

REPPAS: H perioxh gia mas exei safes -epanalambanw- kai sygkekrimeno kaqestws, to opoio einai adiamfisbhthto. Apo ekei kai pera, h qesh ths Toyrkias einai gnwsth. Emeis thn kaloyme na sebastei to Dieqnes Dikaio empraktws kai oxi mono stoys logoys kai na parei thn prwtoboylia prosfyghs sth Xagh an qewrei oti to kaqestws sthn perioxh einai amfisbhtoyme- no. An pragmatika qewrei oti yparxei ena kaqestws to opoio einai amfisbhtoymeno, idoy loipon o dromos, wste to problhma ayto na brei th lysh toy mesw toy Dikasthrioy ths Xaghs. H Toyrkia an qewrei oti yparxei tetoio qema, exei kai to ergaleio basei toy opoioy mporei na antimetwpisei to qema ayto.

MIXAHL: O k. Ferskofski, pote erxetai sthn Aqhna;

REPPAS: Exei symfwnhqei oti qa yparjei ayth h episkech kai h syzhthsh sta plaisia ths episkechs toy k. Ferskofski sthn Aqhna. Den exei kaqorisqei h akribhs hmeromhnia ayth thn wra poy miloyme.

MIXAHL: H Kybernhsh exei ypoch ths oti epixeirhmaties apo thn Boreio Ellada episkeptontai ta Skopia;

REPPAS: Ma, ayto den einai kainoyrgio fainomeno. Epixeirhmaties apo thn Boreio Ellada anaptyssoyn drasthriothtes sto geitoniko kratos. Kai ayto einai kati poy to blepoyme me qetiko mati.

SOYGLERHS: qa hqela ena sxolio gia thn prwtoboylia twn boyleytwn toy PASOK poy mazeyoyn ypografes gia to qema toy onomatos twn Skopiwn.

REPPAS: Oi boyleytes toy PASOK exoyn aperioristo to dikaiwma ths gnwmhs kai ths eleyqerias na ekfrazoyn tis opoies skeceis exoyn h qeseis me ton tropo poy ekeinoi krinoyn ws ton pleon orqo.

SOYRMELH: Eida xqes stis efhmerides oti h Ellada den qa symmetasxei sth synanthsh sta Tirana metajy Ypoyrgwn Amynas twn xwrwn ths perioxhs, h opoia qa ginei an den kanw laqos stis 31 Martioy kai thn 1h Aprilioy. Gia poioys logoys; Pws tiqetai ayto to qema;

REPPAS: Pisteyoyme oti oi syzhthseis poy ginontai gia thn asfaleia sthn perioxh einai syzhthseis xrhsimes kai krisimes. H Ellada einai mia xwra poy apotelei shmantiko paragonta staqerothtas kai asfaleias sthn perioxh ayth. Qeloyme na anaptyxqoyn akomh perissotero oi sxeseis synergasias me tis geitonikes xwres. Idiaiterws s'aytoys toy tomeis, ths asfaleias kai ths amoibaias yposthrijhs twn prospaqeiwn toy enos kratoys dhladh pros to allo, wste na epityxei kalyteres synqhkes zwhs gia toys idioys toys polites toy. Gia to sygkekrimeno qema, qa moy epitrecete na pw me bash ola ta prohgoymena oti qewroyme anagkaia thn kalyterh proetoimasia, opws epishs kai th symmetoxh olwn anejairetws twn xwrwn ths perioxhs se tetoioy eidoys hmerides, prokeimenoy ta symperasmata ta opoia qa ejagontai na einai plhrh kai na einai desmeytika gia oloys. qewroyme pws prepei h prwtoboylia ayth na analhfqei wste se ena epomeno stadio h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh, me kalyterh proetoimasia, na filojenhsei sthn Aqhna mia syzhthsh gia thn asfaleia sthn perioxh.

KARASABBA: Exoyme mia dhmoskophsh sthn ELEYQEROTYPIA. Ti problhmatizei perissotero thn Kybernhsh oti yparxei mia strofh ston ellhniko lao kai apodexetai perissotero mia onomasia meikth, mia onomasia poy qa perilambanei ton oro MAKEDONIA h thn problhmatizei perissotero oti yparxei ena 40% to opoio emmenei se mia qesh sklhrh;

REPPAS: Qa moy epitrecete na kanw ena geniko sxolio legontas pws oi dhmoskophseis, tis opoies bebaiws me prosoxh parakoloyqoyme kai meletoyme, den exoyn thn pistothta h thn ajia poy exei to yperhxografhma sthn iatrikh. Na mpw kai sta dika moy "xwrafia". Apotypwnoyn loipon tis diaqeseis enos sygkekrimenoy swmatos, mia dedomenh stigmh. Bebaiws h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh -ayto einai poy antimetwpizei kai apo ayto problhmatizetai- exei kaqe logo na ejetazei toso ta eswterika problhmata, oso kai ta problhmata ta opoia ekkremoyn stis sxeseis ejwterikhs politikhs ths, wste na mporesoyme na ejasfalisoyme kalyteres synqhkes sthn perioxh ayth.

STAMATOPOYLOS (xaritologwntas): Na kanoyme "ajonikh" poy einai kalyterh tote!

REPPAS: Nomizw oti, an paradexqw pws qa kanoyme ajonikh tomografia, qa anakalycete oti h Kybernhsh prowqei mia politikh ajonwn me th Sofia, me to Beligradi...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Magnhtikh tote.

REPPAS: Magnhtikh mporoyme na kanoyme, giati h Ellada magnhtizei pia polloys jenoys.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Den oloklhrwsate thn prohgoymenh frash sas.

REPPAS: Ayto poy problhmatizei thn Kybernhsh, ayto poy apasxolei kyriws thn Kybernhsh einai na dwsei lysh -epanalambanw kai pali- sta qemata ta opoia ekkremoyn. Toso sthn ejwterikh politikh ths, oso bebaiws kai na antimetwpisei kai ta megala eswterika problhmata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Th synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Nails poios th zhthse;

REPPAS: Th synanthsh ayth egine sto plaisio -epanalambanw kai pali- ths proetoimasias toy tajidioy toy Ellhna Prwqypoyrgoy sthn Amerikh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ton kalese o k. Shmiths;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw poios eixe thn prwtoboylia. Mporw na to maqw an einai toso shmantiko gia sas kai na sas enhmerwsw. Alla den nomizw oti einai toso shmantiko.

MPERMPERAKHS: Exete ypoch sas to periexomeno ths episkechs toy k. Milosebits sta Skopia kai an yparxei kapoio sxolio;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizoyme na yparxei episkech toy k. Milosebits sta Skopia...

MPERMPERAKHS: Exei anakoinwqei.

REPPAS: Den gnwrizoyme na yparxei ayth thn wra kati gia to periexomeno ths episkechs opws moy eipate. Giati edw kai ena mhna, apo thn prwth peripoy hmera poy briskomai edw, moy qetete to erwthma "ti sxolio exw na kanw en ocei ths epikeimenhs anagnwrishs apo thn Nea Gioygkoslabia toy kratoys twn Skopiwn me to onoma MAKEDONIA". Kai blepete oti exei parelqei hdh enas mhnas kai den yparxei kammia ejelijh, enw eseis eixate hdh to qema ws wrimo kai ws qema to opoio exei peripoy kleisei. Apodeixqhke oti den einai etsi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mas malwnete k. Ypoyrge;(!)

REPPAS: Oxi, kaqoloy! Apla kanw ena sxolio, giati dinw mia apanthsh h opoia den sas ikanopoiei!

MPOGIOPOYLOS: H Kybernhsh panta symfwnei me th qesh ths Ypoyrgoy Anaptyjhs oti h apofash twn Dikasthriwn gia toys anqrwpoys ths DEH qa prepei na epibarynei toys logariasmoys twn katanalwtwn;

REPPAS: Efoson ginetai sebasth h apofash toy Dikasthrioy, bebaiws h DEH einai ypoxrewmenh na symperilambanei pia sto proswpiko ths, sto monimo pia proswpiko ths, aytes tis xiliades twn ergazomenwn. Katalabainete oti ayto odhgei se ena ayjhmeno kostos ta epomena xronia kai diarkws. Dioti legoyn para polloi oti me th diadikasia twn asfalistikwn metrwn, oi ergazomenoi aytoi eplhrwnonto hdh apo th DEH. Bebaiws. An me thn apofash toy Areioy Pagoy apelyonto, den qa eplhrwnonto pleon. Qa eixe mia oikonomikh elafrynsh h DEH. Pragma to opoio pia den symbainei kai prepei katw apo ayta ta nea dedomena na doyme poia einai h timologiakh politikh ths DEH.

KOGIANNHS: Oyte nea epibarynsh opws h k. Papandreoy yposthrizei ...

REPPAS: Ma, apo th stigmh poy oi ypallhloi aytoi, oi ergazomenoi einai monimoi, poly de perissotero otan oi eidikothtes tis opoies exoyn peripoy den antapokrinontai stis anagkes poy exei o idios o Organismos, katalabainete oti dhmioyrgeitai ena problhma. Giati h prepei polloys apo aytoys h DEH me taxyrryqmh ekpaideysh na toys proetoimasei wste na toys entajei se eidikothtes tis opoies den exoyn twra gia na kalycoyn sygkekrimenes anagkes ths h prepei prokeimenoy na kalycei ekeines tis anagkes poy exei h DEH kai den kalyptontai apo tis eidikothtes twn xiliadwn aytwn ergazomenwn, na tis kalycei me proslhch newn ypallhlwn. Katalabainete oti yparxei ena qema.

KOGIANNHS: H ka Papandreoy milhse gia epipleon epibarynsh 20 dis. Den milame gia kainoyrgioys anqrwpoys poy qa parei.

REPPAS: Ma, yphrxe to xroniko orio to opoio prosdiorize h ekdosh ths apofashs toy Areioy Pagoy, to opoio ayto xroniko orio taytoxrona shmaine kai thn ejetash ths politikhs ths DEH, efoson h apofash toy Areioy Pagoy htan apofash gia thn apolysh aytwn twn ergazomenwn. Apo th stigmh poy h apofash einai gia paramonh aytwn twn ergazomenwn, xiliadwn ergazomenwn sth DEH, katalabainete oti dhmioyrgeitai ena dedomeno gia ola ta epomena xronia gi'ayton ton Organismo mexri na bgoyn sth syntajh oi ergazomenoi aytoi.

KOGIANNHS: Ayrio den qa exoyme Kybernhtikh Epitroph;

REPPAS: Oxi. Sas eyxaristw poly.

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