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Greek Government Press Briefing, 11-03-01

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

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Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 1 Martioy 2011

Ariqmos Deltioy: 319014236

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING KYBERNHTIKOY EKPROSWPOY G. PETALWTH (010311)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 1 Martioy 2011

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri kai kalo mhna.

Briskomaste se mia krisimh kamph twn politikwn mas gia thn ejodo apo thn krish kai th dhmioyrgia mias diaforetikhs pragmatikothtas kai kaqhmerinothtas sth xwra mas.

Dinoyme th maxh toso me ta dika mas eswterika problhmata tis dikes mas paqogeneies, oso kai sto ejwteriko se epipedo E.E., opoy dinetai mia allh maxh gia th synolikh antimetwpish twn zhthmatwn poy aforoyn th xwra mas kai thn Eyrwph genikotera. Kai ekei prwtostatoyme, proteinoyme kai syndiamorfwnoyme tis ejelijeis.

Wstoso, prepei na ginei antilhpto oti kamia krish den jepernietai, an den yparxei ychlos baqmos sympnoias kai symporeyshs. Einai gegonos pws sth xwra mas oi aploi polites, oi dhmosioi kai idiwtikoi ypallhloi, oi epaggelmaties, oi syntajioyxoi, oi ygieis epixeirhmaties exoyn ypostei diaxronika, oxi mono twra sthn wra ths krishs, qysies. Einai, omws, epishs anamfisbhthto gegonos oti einai parallhla kai oi prwtoi poy antilambanontai tis apaithseis twn stigmwn poy pername. Einai oi prwtoi poy antilambanontai pws shmera den diaxeirizomaste apla mia katastash poy afora sto paron. Diaxeirizomaste to paron, bebaiws, alla kyriws to mellon twn epomenwn genewn, twn idiwn mas twn paidiwn.

Dystyxws, den epideiknyoyn thn idia merimna, den symmerizontai kai den antilambanontai to idio aplo pragma kapoioi kalobolemenoi, alla kai kapoies politikes paratajeis poy antilambanontai th shmerinh pragmatikothta me oroys eite pelateiakoys, eite mhdenismoy, eite arnhtismoy, mesa apo ayth thn prospaqeia. Ekei ependyoyn kai ekei krybontai.

Dystyxws, gia orismenoys oi ennoies ths sympnoias kai ths symporeyshs periorizontai sto diko toys mikrokosmo, sta dika toys mikra syntexniaka kai kommatika symferonta. Symporeyontai mono metajy toys, ensternizontai synwmosiologies, mono kai mono gia na apoprosanatolisoyn apo ta pragmatika zhthmata, ta opoia einai kairia.

H koinwnia, omws, toys jepernaei. H istoria mas katagrafei oloys kai ayto qa prepei na to exoyme oloi ypoch mas. H eqnikh syneidhsh ypagoreyei, poly perissotero shmera, thn eqnikh symporeysh, oxi mono gia na bgei h xwra apo thn krish, alla gia na mh xreiastei sto mellon, na janabreqoyn se tetoies paromoies katastaseis oi epomenes genies.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sthn Irlandia oi chfoforoi timwrhsan to aperxomeno komma, epeidh ebale th xwra sto mnhmonio. Sas dinei kapoio mhnyma ayto;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na tonisoyme gia allh mia fora to aytonohto, ayto poy proslambanei kaneis me mia stoixeiwdh analysh twn dieqnwn ejelijewn: H Irlandia einai mia diaforetikh periptwsh. Exoyme diaforetikh krish apo ayth ths Irlandias. Sthn Irlandia h krish prohlqe apo tis trapezes kai apo thn yperekqesh toys se tojika proionta.

Sthn Ellada h krish proerxetai apo tis domes, apo th diafqora, apo problhmata kaqara qesmikoy plaisioy, apo adiafaneia thn opoia zhsame kai zoyme mexris enos baqmoy kai shmera, prospaqwntas na allajoyme ola ayta ta qemata. Epishs, h megalh diafora mas me thn Irlandia einai oti h kybernhsh ths Irlandias den lipotakthse otan emfanisthke h krish, opws ekane h kybernhsh ths N.D., apokryptontas to problhma kai kalyptontas to, etsi wste na fqasei sto apokoryfwma na koroideyei kai na ejapata ton ellhniko lao, akomh kai dyo hmeres prin apo tis ekloges. Edwse th maxh ths, edwse ton agwna ths kai efqase, fysika, se ekloges gia na yparxei mia nea kybernhsh. H aperxomenh kybernhsh ths Irlandias ekane poly perissotera pragmata ap` o,ti h kybernhsh ths N.D.

H kybernhsh h opoia profanws qa analabei th diakybernhsh ths Irlandias sto amesws epomeno diasthma, einai ayth h opoia milaei gia to mnhmonio, h opoia erxetai na epanadiapragmateytei, opws leei, kapoia zhthmata toy mnhmonioy. Yparxoyn, omws, zhthmata ta opoia kai emeis epanadiapragmateyomaste, opws einai h epimhkynsh h h meiwsh twn epitokiwn. Emas, oxi aplws den mas anhsyxei to ti egine sthn Irlandia, alla akribws deixnei kai to dromo toy ti shmainei ypeyqynothta, ti shmainei ypeyqynh kybernhsh kai ti shmainei aneyqynh kybernhsh. Aytoi poy qa eprepe na problhmatizontai einai h N.D., h opoia qa prepei na kanei tis moiraies ekeines sygkriseis, opoy apodeiknyetai peritrana poso diaforetika leitoyrghse h Irlandia apo thn Ellada, se epipedo kybernhshs. Emeis eimaste ypeyqynoi. Emeis prospaqoyme na bgaloyme th xwra apo thn krish. Emeis eimaste poy kanoyme tis megales tomes kai allages kai malista me poly-poly megala bhmata, aytes poy den eginan epi dekaeties, aytes poy apekrypte -akomh kai thn apotypwsh ths aplhs katastashs- h N.D.

SIDERHS: Exete dikio gia ta aitia kai th lipotajia. Omws, oi laoi anejarthtws aitiwn ponane to idio. Rwthsa, an perimenete oti kai eseis kapoia stigmh qa exete thn idia tyxh, mesa apo th laikh aganakthsh, dikaiws h adikws.

PETALWTHS: To anefera prohgoymenws kai to epanalambanw oti o ellhnikos laos antilambanetai para poly kala pws fqasame edw, poioi einai oi aitioi gia thn krish kai poioi pragmatika doyleyoyn gia na jeperastei ayth h krish. Apenanti se mia kybernhsh h opoia exei ena sygkekrimeno programma, ena sygkekrimeno sxedio gia ejodo apo thn krish, apenanti se mia aperanth katastrofologia edw kai 16-17 mhnes, oti ptwxeyoyme mera me th mera, oti den bgainoyme, oti den paei allo, fanhke kai apodeixqhke oti emeis kanoyme staqera bhmata, emeis eimaste poy lambanoyme apofaseis poy polles fores htan epwdynes gia ton aplo Ellhna polith. Alla o Ellhnas poliths antilambanetai oti ayth h kybernhsh bgazei kapoy th xwra. Synepws, to na poyme an fobomaste na exoyme thn idia tyxh me thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh ths Irlandias, safws kai den yparxei kanenas tetoios fobos.

Emeis epiteloyme to kaqhkon mas kai ayto to kaqhkon mas einai jekaqaro. Den leme cemata, den ypokrinomaste, den krybomaste apo ton kosmo kai exoyme mia qewrhsh: Otan les thn alhqeia ston polith gia to poia einai h katastash kai ti prospaqoyme na kanoyme mesa ap` ayth th megalh prospaqeia, poy safws den exei eggyhmena apotelesmata, alla deixnei enan tropo kai mia kateyqynsh, oti doyleyoyme -gi` ayto zhtame kai thn eqnikh synennohsh- tote o aplos Ellhnas poliths, akomh kai otan yfistatai tis synepeies mias krishs, antilambanetai poion prepei na empisteytei. Kai gi` ayto eimaste etoimoi.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o Prwqypoyrgos skeftetai na parei kapoia metra, na kanei kapoies kinhseis gia na mhn yparxei ayth h aisqhsh toy aposyntonismoy mesa sthn kybernhsh; Giati blepoyme mia kybernhsh h opoia kineitai pia oysiastika xwris pyjida.

PETALWTHS: Den dexomai thn aitiash sas, oti h kybernhsh kineitai xwris pyjida. H kybernhsh ayth exei deijei oti kai pyjida diaqetei kai pygmh kai th boylhsh na kanei tis poly megales allages. Oti politeyomaste kai askoyme thn kybernhsh ths xwras se mia periodo h opoia einai akrws reysth kai pragmatika periodos megalwn zymwsewn se eqniko, koinwniko, oikonomiko epipedo, akomh kai politiko, alla kyriws se eyrwpaiko, poy exei amesh antanaklash kai sta ellhnika pragmata, ayto den shmainei oti den gnwrizoyme poy phgainoyme. Emeis exoyme sygkekrimenes stoxeyseis, exoyme sygkekrimenh politikh thn opoia askoyme. Fysika, den einai kaqoloy eykolo na milame ek toy asfaloys oti yparxei problhma sthn kybernhsh. Se oloys toys tomeis sygxronws, exoyme anoijei ola ta megala qemata kai me ayto ton tropo proxwrame. Apo ekei kai pera, fysika, periqwrio gia beltiwsh olwn mas, safws kai yparxei. Safws qa prepei na trejoyn me akomh grhgorotero ryqmo oi megales allages poy ginontai, kati to opoio omws den einai aytonohto, eykolo kai aplo.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sygnwmh, na katalabw oti den yparxei problhmatismos sthn kybernhsh, den prokeitai na analabei kapoia prwtoboylia.

PETALWTHS: San ti prwtoboylia, dhladh;

XASAPOPOYLOS: Jerame apo plhrofories oti qa synanthqei kat` idian me ypoyrgoys, oti mhpws janasystaqei, as poyme ena organo san to diaqesmiko h an skeftetai anasxhmatismo h an skeftetai kybernhtikh epitroph.

PETALWTHS: Oyte kybernhtikh epitroph skeftetai, oyte anasxhmatismo. Diaqesmiko organo yparxei kai leitoyrgei otan prepei na leitoyrghsei. Gi` ayth thn kybernhsh, h opoia ergazetai, fysika, h synergasia kai h synanthsh me toys ypoyrgoys einai ena kaqhmerino fainomeno. Ayth h synergasia mporei na parei diafores morfes kai fysika den apotelei prwtotypia, oyte kati diaforetiko ap` ayto poy ginetai edw kai para poly kairo.

SIDERHS: Oles oi kybernhseis ws twra, eixan kybernhtikh epitroph. Einai o syllogikos kai synektikos noys mias kybernhshs, to syllogiko epiteleio. Ti fobatai o k. Papandreoy kai den dhmioyrgei mia analogh epitroph, na eixan fygei kai ta opoia mikra, lete eseis, problhmata aposyntonismoy;

PETALWTHS: Mhn kanoyme sygkriseis legontas ``oles oi kybernhseis'', giati qa sas prokalesw na kanete sygkriseis me to poses fores synedriase to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio sta pentemisi xronia ths N.D. Se ayth thn kybernhsh, to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio synedriazei sxedon kaqe 15 hmeres, mporei kai pio syxna. Kai ayto einai akribws to apolyto deigma oti ayth h kybernhsh leitoyrgei me ton pleon dhmokratiko kai ton pleon synektiko kai syllogiko tropo. Akribws, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio einai poy jetyligontai oles oi protaseis, ekfrazontai oles oi apoceis kai analyontai oi politikes ths kybernhshs sto pio syllogiko epipedo, enw alles kybernhseis leitoyrgoysan me thn kybernhtikh epitroph kai oxi me Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Gnwrizoyme poly kala oti h kybernhtikh epitroph einai oligomelhs. Gi` ayto fysika yphrxan kai periodoi sthn ellhnikh politikh zwh opoy leitoyrgoyse teleiws aristokratika h kybernhsh, xwris na leitoyrgei to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio toy opoioy h leitoyrgia problepetai apo to Syntagma. Emeis, oxi aplws den fobomaste, qetoyme ola ta zhthmata sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio kai oi synedriaseis toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy ayths ths kybernhshs einai oi pio syxnes apo oles twn prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn.

MOSXOBAS: Kala bebaia, h posothta den paizei rolo, alla h poiothta. Qa symfwnhsete fantazomai.

PETALWTHS: Panta.

MOSXOBAS: Qelw na sas rwthsw se synexeia toy erwthmatos toy k. Xasapopoyloy, den diapistwnei h kybernhsh to keno syntonismoy poy diapistwnoyn oi boyleytes toy kommatos sas; H k. Giannaka xqes eipe oti o k. Pagkalos den mporei na syntonisei to terastio kybernhtiko ergo poy exei analabei.

PETALWTHS: Den einai o rolos toy k. Pagkaloy na syntonizei.

MOSXOBAS: To terastio kybernhtiko ergo poy exei analabei.

PETALWTHS: Malista.

MOSXOBAS: Oxi thn kybernhsh.

PETALWTHS: O k. Pagkalos exei ena sygkekrimeno rolo, exei sygkekrimenes armodiothtes kai opws gnwrizete ayth th stigmh synedriazei mia epitroph ypo thn proedria toy. Fqanw se shmeio na pw ti kanei o k. Pagkalos, ws pros to kybernhtiko toy ergo poy einai aytapodeikto. Kata diasthmata dhmosieyei tis ekqeseis poy bgazoyme pros ta ejw gia to ergo kaqe ypoyrgeioy. Fysika, problhma syntonismoy gia thn kybernhsh - epeidh milame kai akoyme gia syntonistes kai ola ta synafh - den yfistatai. Syntonisths einai o Prwqypoyrgos, arkei kaqe ypoyrgos apo emas, kaqe boyleyths, kaqe stelexos toy kybernwntos kommatos na kanei th doyleia toy. Kai ayth h kybernhsh kanei th doyleia ths, opws kai oi boyleytes kai malista se poly dyskoles kai antijoes synqhkes. To na ekfrazetai h agwnia enos boyleyth h kapoiwn boyleytwn h olwn twn boyleytwn opws kai h agwnia twn ypoyrgwn, einai deigma ygeias. Emeis exoyme pei para polles fores, to exei pei kai o idios o Prwqypoyrgos oti blepoyme tis diaboyleyseis poy ginontai, thn ekqesh twn apocewn akomh kai dhmosiws, ws ena ygies deigma. Fysika, kaneis den qa mporoyse na isxyristei oti ayth h kybernhsh einai alaqhth. Alla, an skefqoyme se ti synqhkes kai me ti antijoothtes paleyei, tote pragmatika mporoyme na kanoyme kai thn apotimhsh kai tis sygkriseis mas.

MOSXOBAS: Qa mporoysa na eklabw ws deigma ployralismoy ayto poy lete, tis apoceis kybernhtikwn stelexwn gia mia seira prosxhmatika zhthmata. Hqela, omws, thn apoch ths kybernhshs gia to sygkekrimeno poy ebale proxqes, xqes, an den apatwmai o ypoyrgos Eswterikwn k. Ragkoyshs, me to opoio diafwnhsan dhmosiws toylaxiston dyo ypoyrgoi, exw ypoch moy shmera. To qema dhladh ths syntagmatikhs katoxyrwshs ths mh yperbashs toy xreoys. Ypoyrgoi opws o k. Skandalidhs h h k. Jenogiannakopoyloy shmera, diafwnhsan anoixta me ayto. H kybernhsh ti leei sto qema ayto;

PETALWTHS: Kai egw, ws kybernhtikos ekproswpos, exw ekfrasei th qesh ths kybernhshs sto parelqon, oti efoson kai an teqei zhthma syntagmatikhs problechs, yparxei qema anoixto pros syzhthsh gia thn problech ths dhmosionomikhs isorropias. Kai fqanoyme mexri ekei. Ola ta ypoloipa, gia to elleimma, gia problech toy elleimmatos kai o,ti allo akoysthke, den yphrje pote antikeimeno syzhthshs. Gia na gnwrizoyme, giati kapoioi, opws h N.D., mperdeyoyn to xreos me to elleimma kai edeijan xqes, mesa apo anakoinwseis toy k. Mixelakh oti den antilambanontai ta stoixeiwdh oikonomika stoixeia kai megeqh. Elegan oti yparxei antifash metajy emoy, toy k. Ragkoysh kai toy k. Kastanidh, otan den yphrxe kamia antifash. En pash periptwsei, to qema den tiqetai dhmosiws, den tiqetai sthn kybernhsh. To na yparjei problech gia syntagmatikh katoxyrwsh qa mporoyse na teqei, otan qa teqei zhthma syntagmatikhs anaqewrhshs. Ekeino, omws, poy qa prepei na poyme eilikrina kai eyqarsws ston kosmo, stoys polites, einai oti qa prepei na broyme ekeines tis asfalistikes dikleides poy den qa epitrecoyn se kamia kybernhsh na yperbainei kata poly tis dynatothtes poy exei h ellhnikh Politeia, to ellhniko kratos kai na fqanoyme se shmeia, opws fqasame se ayth thn krish kai na prospaqoyme na epibiwsoyme fqanontas sto xeilos ths xreokopias. Qa prepei oloi, anejarthta apo tis proswpikes mas apoceis, oi opoies mporei na einai polles, akomh kai se nomiko epipedo mporei na yparxei diafora, qa prepei oloi mas na antilhfqoyme oti qa prepei na broyme tropoys na mhn epitrecoyme se kamia kybernhsh apo edw kai pera, opoia kybernhsh kai an einai ayth, na fqasei th xwra sto xeilos ths xreokopias. Oi dikleides mporei na einai kai nomoqetikes.

MOSXOBAS: Syntagmatikes ennoeite;

PETALWTHS: To Syntagma einai o ypertatos nomos, alla kai nomos.

MOSXOBAS: Ara, to afhnete anoixto, dhladh. Alla eteqh to qema. Eipate ``an teqei''. Eteqh dhmosiws, apo enan ypoyrgo kai apo alloys ypoyrgoys poy diafwnhsan me ayto.

PETALWTHS: Eteqh qewrhtikws. Ean teqei zhthma na apofasisei h ellhnikh kybernhsh, tote ennoeitai oti qa akoloyqhqei - epeidh prokeitai kai gia syntagmatikh problech - mia poly ayjhmenhs isxyos syzhthsh kai oxi qewrhtikh, oxi se epipedo proswpikwn apocewn. Prwta ap' ola, den exei teqei ws sygkekrimeno antikeimeno syzhthshs. Einai apoceis oi opoies legontai kai akoygontai kai torpilizontai, dynamitizontai kai paraplanwntai apo th N.D., alla kai apo alla kommata ths antipoliteyshs. Ki emas, ayth h syzhthsh den mas afora. Ean xreiastei na paroyme sobares kai epishmes apofaseis, qa ejantlhsoyme ola ta periqwria kai me monadiko symferon, me monadiko krithrio to symferon ths xwras. Kati to opoio, se polles periptwseis mexri twra, den etiqeto ws krithrio apo polles kybernhseis.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate oti ean teqei to qema qa apaithqei syzhthsh ayjhmenhs isxyos. Ti ennoeite akribws;

PETALWTHS: H syntagmatikh anaqewrhsh, oytws h allws, einai syzhthsh me poly sygkekrimenes kai sfixtes proypoqeseis. Ara kai h syzhthsh, ean xreiastei na ginei, qa exei to analogo epipedo kai thn antistoixh isxy.

KOYTRAS: Problhmatizeste gia tis epiqeseis poy dexontai kybernhtika stelexh; Thn prohgoymenh ebdomada htan o Prwqypoyrgos sto Berolino, o k. Pagkalos sto Parisi, o k. Saxinidhs, h ka Diamantopoyloy...

PETALWTHS: O k. Xatzhdakhs prin apo dyo mhnes.

KOYTRAS: O k. Xatzhdakhs...

PETALWTHS: To lew ayto, oxi gia kanenan allo logo, alla gia na antilhfqoyme kapote oloi mas oti qa prepei, safws, kai na problhmatizomaste ws pros tis symperifores tis opoies, polles fores ypodaylizoyme. Einai dedomeno oti o kosmos perna dyskoles stigmes. Einai dedomeno oti oi polites, apo olo ayto to skhniko, to politiko kai to oikonomiko, aisqanontai mia anasfaleia kai mia abebaiothta. Kai fysika oi prwtoi poy thn proslambanoyme eimaste emeis, oi opoioi exoyme tyxei prin apo enamish xrono mias poly megalhs epidokimasias toy ellhnikoy laoy, kati poy teqhke, ws krisimo zhthma, kai stis aytodioikhtikes ekloges. Emeis leitoyrgoyme me ypeyqynothta. Thn opoia apodokimasia, omws, kai thn opoia diaforetikh apoch apenanti se apoceis ypoyrgwn h prwqypoyrgoy, boyleytwn h stelexwn h opoioydhpote polith apo opoiondhpote politiko xwro, den qa epitrecoyme se kanenan, oyte na tis ypodaylizei, oyte na tis ependyei me biaioys tropoys kai me mia diaqesh strathgikhs aposynqeshs kai opws th leme sthn kaqomiloymenh ``leitoyrgias katastashs mpaxaloy''. Kai lypamai poy xrhsimopoiw aytes tis ekfraseis, alla ayth einai, nomizw, h ekfrash poy xarakthrizei kai thn boylhsh kapoiwn politikwn dynamewn, giati mas afora oloys. Kai den afora mono sto politiko systhma poy mporei na einai kalo h na mhn einai kalo. Afora oloys toys polites. Synepws, gia na mhn apoprosanatolizoyme kanenan kai gia na mhn dinoyme alloy baros apo th diamartyria, polles fores, toy aploy Ellhna polith, qa prepei na eimaste oloi prosektikoi kai kyriws na akoyme apo politikes dynameis politikes apoceis kai oxi apoceis toy ``stil'' oti h Plateia Syntagmatos qa ginei Plateia toy Taxrir. Aytes oi poly eykoles kai poly eyxaristes, isws, gia kapoioys ekfraseis kai symperifores, einai aytes oi opoies gyrizoyn ``mpoymerangk'' s' aytoys poy tis ensternizontai. Kai s' ayto akribws to shmeio qa moy epitrecete na pw oti pera apo sygkekrimenes politikes dynameis poy briskontai pisw apo tetoioy eidoys kinhseis kai tis xrhsimopoioyn, qa prepei kai h N.D. na parei qesh. Giati epilekta stelexh ths kai malista me anwteres qeseis mesa ston kommatiko mhxanismo, polles fores, kai dhmosiws parotrynoyn kai protrepoyn toys polites na odeyoyn pros thn aytodikia kai se akrato laikismo, me diafores kai sygkekrimenes kinhseis.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa mporoysate na mas prosdiorisete poies einai aytes oi politikes dynameis poy kata th gnwmh sas ypokinoyn tetoioy eidoys epiqeseis kata twn kybernhtikwn kai oxi monon, giati kai monos sas eipate oti einai kai alla politika stelexh poy dexontai epiqeseis;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap' ola, h ennoia ``epiqesh'' einai poly eyreia ennoia. Den milame gia swmatikh epiqesh. Einai dedomeno oti kapoioi, eidikotera kapoies dynameis toy SYRIZA apo th mia pleyra, prospaqoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn ena klima, na apokocoyn th shmerinh kybernhsh, se olh ths th synqesh, na exei epafh me ton aplo Ellhna polith. Fysika, kati tetoio den yparxei periptwsh na to petyxoyn. O Prwqypoyrgos einai apo toys pleon kinhtikoys prwqypoyrgoys poy gnwrise h xwra, otan gnwrizoyn para poly kala oti perasan prwqypoyrgoi, poy hsan ejafanismenoi kai oi opoioi xairontan th qalpwrh toy spitioy toys kai ths pareas toys. Synepws, kati tetoio peftei sto keno. Kai epeidh oyte stoxopoioyme, oyte qa prepei na periorizoyme aytes tis kinhseis se enan sygkekrimeno politiko xwro, epanalambanw ayto poy eipa prohgoymenws: Kai h N.D., me toys dikoys ths tropoys, akomh kai me ta MME, ypoqalptei tetoioy eidoys kinhseis, dinontas th skytalh apo ton enan ston allon. Kai malista, epanalambanw, oti stelexh ths poy briskontai se anwteres qeseis ston kommatiko mhxanismo, oxi aplws epikrotoyn kai epidokimazoyn kinhseis ``mpaxalopoihshs'', alla tis organwnoyn kiolas.

MARAQIAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, pws niwqei twra h kybernhsh poy fainetai oti xanei to dejio dekaniki ths, dhladh, to LAOS, kaqws fainetai oti anaptyssetai neo flert metajy Syggroy kai LAOS;

PETALWTHS: Syggroy, ennoeite ta grafeia ths N.D;

MARAQIAS: Ennow twn kentrikwn grafeiwn ths N.D.

PETALWTHS: Pote den yphrje to LAOS dejio dekaniki. Den xreiazomaste dekanikia. Xreiazomaste sympleysh, symporeysh, eqnikh synennohsh. Einai gnwsto oti h ideologikh kai politikh topoqethsh mas, toso se qewrhtiko - ideologiko, alla kai se praktiko - kaqhmerino epipedo, mas fernei poly makria apo to LAOS, to opoio exei mia sygkekrimenh topoqethsh, polles fores akraia. Den mas aforoyse kai den mas afora na exoyme dekanikia. To oti to flert metajy LAOS kai N.D. epanerxetai kata diasthmata, einai diko toys qema. Emas den mas afora. Emas, ayto poy mas afora einai h prosklhsh pros oles tis politikes dynameis, ap' oloys toys xwroys, ap' olo to fasma, apo th dejia mexri kai thn aristera, na mporesoyme na synennohqoyme se sygkekrimena zhthmata gia na bgoyme apo thn krish, kratwntas fysika kaqenas tis ideologikes kai politikes proseggiseis toy. Ekei kaloyme se ypeyqynothta tis politikes dynameis. Kai fainetai oti h N.D. kati tetoio den to antilambanetai kai den exei th qelhsh na syneisferei sthn ejodo apo thn krish, diathrwntas fysika tis apoceis ths.

SPANOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eiste se qesh na desmeyqeite oti den qa ginoyn ekloges prin apo to 2013;

PETALWTHS: Oi ekloges orizontai apo to Syntagma kai fysika h diejagwgh eklogwn diepetai apo sygkekrimenh nomoqesia. Epanalambanw, gia pollosth fora, oti oydeis logos yfistatai na ginoyn ekloges. Emeis exoyme na epitelesoyme ena poly sygkekrimeno kai poly ayjhmeno eqniko, patriwtiko kaqhkon kai s' ayto to plaisio kinoymaste. Oi ekloges den ejyphretoyn kanenan o opoios skeptetai ton topo mas kai fysika osoi apergazontai tetoia senaria, exoyn toys dikoys toys logoys.

MPEQANH: Parathrhsa kai shmera, kyrie Petalwth, oti lete pws den yparxoyn eggyhmena apotelesmata stis prospaqeies poy kanoyme. Giati kratate toso xamhles prosdokies; Ti fobaste; Poios einai o aprosdioristos paragontas poy skeptetai h kybernhsh, mprosta s' oles aytes tis ejelijeis poy exoyme; To qema toy mnhmonioy; Oi diaboyleyseis poy qa ginoyn stis epikeimenes Synodoys Koryfhs; Kai mia akomh erwthsh poy afora sto ean h ejygiansh ths oikonomias symperilambanei kai ta oikonomika twn kommatwn, kaqws shmera blepoyme se dhmosieymata oti yparxei megalo problhma se o,ti afora sta kommata. Einai yperxrewmena.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap' ola, nomizw oti o kaqe swfrwn kai synetos anqrwpos kai poly perissotero enas ypeyqynos politikos den qa mporoyse na pei oti yparxei eggyhmenh eytyxhs katalhjh gia ta ellhnika pragmata. Omws, ayto to lew bazontas mia sygkekrimenh parametro: Oti emeis doyleyoyme me poly entatikoys ryqmoys, oti etsi opws pame, thrwntas aparegklita toys stoxoys mas, dhmioyrgoyme prooptikes gia th xwra. Alla briskomaste se mia krish opoy yparxoyn polloi aprosdioristoi paragontes kai fysika kai thn poiothta kai thn posothta aytwn twn paragontwn prospaqoyme na thn ekmhdenisoyme. Gia na exoyme eggyhmena apotelesmata, qa prepei na yparxei eqnikh symporeysh. Qa prepei na isxyropoihqoyme oloi mas, etsi wste na apaithsoyme kai apo toys etairoys, alla kai na katadeijoyme stoys polites, thn poly megalh shmasia kai to baros poy exei to sygkekrimeno politiko programma mas h fysika opoio programma diamorfwqei mesa apo protaseis twn ypoloipwn kommatwn. Ayto to lew, giati qelw na eimaste eilikrineis, giati qeloyme na eimaste sobaroi. Bebaia, epanalambanw oti h aparegklith thrhsh twn stoxwn einai h monadikh eggyhsh thn opoia mporoyme na exoyme, alla ean jefygei kati ap' aytoys toys stoxoys, tote pragmatika qa prepei na synaisqanqoyme oloi tis eyqynes mas. Oso doyleyoyme kai oso eimaste synepeis se stoxoys kai den analwnomaste se alloy eidoys praktikes kai politikes, den kindyneyoyme se tipota. Fysika, zoyme se ena reysto eyrwpaiko kai dieqnes periballon kai ayth th reystothta qa prepei pragmatika na thn antimetwpizoyme me thn ypeyqynothta, poy h kybernhsh deixnei thn periodo ayths ths krishs. Den shmainei tipote allo, otan elega oti den yparxei eggyhsh.

Oson afora ta oikonomika twn kommatwn, yphrxe shmera kai prwtoselido se kapoia efhmerida: Gnwrizoyme para poly kala oti yparxoyn problhmata sta oikonomika twn kommatwn, oti yparxoyn ypoqhkeymenes epixorhghseis pollwn xronwn sta kommata. Xwris na gnwrizw leptomereies, toylaxiston sta dyo megala kommata yparxoyn. Nomizw oti kai ta mikrotera ofeiloyn xamhlotera posa. Ekeino poy emeis eggywmeqa - kai to exei ejaggeilei o armodios kaq' ylhn ypoyrgos Eswterikwn k. Ragkoyshs - einai oti qa baloyme tajh sto nomoqetiko plaisio poy afora sta oikonomika twn kommatwn, etsi wste na mhn exoyme pleon analoga fainomena sto mellon kai ta kommata na antimetwpizoyn toso megales kai sysswreymenes, edw kai para polla xronia, oikonomikes anagkes. Qa prepei na sebastoyme kai thn perioysia toy ellhnikoy laoy, giati einai xrhmata poy proerxontai apo th forologhsh twn politwn. Alla kai ta kommata qa prepei apo mona toys na synaisqanqoyn oti ontas se mia tetoia katastash kai se mia oikonomikh krish aytoy toy megeqoys, na einai ta prwta, oi prwtoi sxhmatismoi poy epiballetai na epideijoyn thn apaitoymenh prosoxh kai ypeyqynothta. H kybernhsh epejergazetai hdh ena nomoqetiko plaisio, etsi wste tetoioy eidoys fainomena sysswreyshs terastiwn xrewn apo ta kommata, na mhn epanalhfqoyn.

MOSXOBAS: Eipate sthn arxh, an sygkrathsa kala, toys stoxoys en ocei toy Symboylioy Koryfhs, thn epimhkynsh apoplhrwmhs kai th meiwsh toy epitokioy. H epanagora meroys twn xrewn mas, den perilambanetai stoys stoxoys;

PETALWTHS: Einai nwris na milame akomh, kai to lew ayto giati einai mia periodos diapragmateyshs. Mia periodos kata thn opoia diejagetai politikh syzhthsh se eyrwpaiko epipedo. Synepws, exoyme mprosta mas poly megalo pedio skechs, politikwn protasewn kai diapragmateyshs.

MOSXOBAS: Katalabainw oti den qelete na milhsete pio anoikta, alla den moy apanthsate ean einai mesa stoys stoxoys. Einai profanws mesa stoys stoxoys mas h epanagora meroys twn xrewn mas;

PETALWTHS: Egw emmenw s' ayto poy sas eipa prohgoymenws. Kai to eipa me aformh erwthsh gia thn periptwsh ths Irlandias an den kanw laqos, oti kai emeis qetoyme stoxoys, etsi wste na beltiwqei h katastash sthn opoia briskomaste kai na mporesoyme na anakoyfistoyme akomh perissotero apo tis daneiakes mas anagkes. Kai fysika, na ekmetalleyqoyme, dhladh na ajiopoihsoyme se eyrwpaiko epipedo kaqe eykairia poy mas didetai. Ayth th stoxeysh exei h ellhnikh kybernhsh kai o 'Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos. Fysika, ta tajidia poy ginontai - tajidia epafwn me arxhgoys kratwn kai kybernhsewn allwn xwrwn - ayto ejyphretoyn: Na ejhghsoyme kai to ti exoyme kanei mexri twra kai to poso ypeyqynoi eimaste pleon, etsi wste na mporoyn na mas empisteyqoyn.

MOSXOBAS: Kai mia teleytaia erwthsh, se synexeia ths erwthshs ths kas Spanoy: H kybernhsh ejetazei to endexomeno, an den pane ola kala -opws eipate ws exefrwn politikos kratate mia ``pisinh''- ejetazei, epanalambanw, h kybernhsh to endexomeno na kataqesei th laikh entolh;

PETALWTHS: Se poion;

MOSXOBAS: Ston ellhniko lao, profanws. Na pate se ekloges, ennow.

PETALWTHS: O ellhnikos laos mas exei dwsei entolh diakybernhshs gia tessera xronia kai epanabebaiwqhke prin apo kapoioys mhnes stis aytodioikhtikes ekloges. Einai jekaqaro - kai ayto diafainetai apo kaqe eidoys syzhthsh h ereyna poy diejagetai - oti o ellhnikos laos empisteyetai thn kybernhsh. Kai malista mia kybernhsh, h opoia politeyetai ypo tis pio dyskoles, antijoes kai sklhres synqhkes apo th metapoliteysh kai meta.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epimenei h kybernhsh sth qesh ths, gia kamia mazikh nomimopoihsh metanastwn; Kai to rwtaw ayto me dedomeno oti h apergia peinas twn metanastwn, se Aqhna kai Qessalonikh exei fqasei sto aproxwrhto kai kindyneyei h zwh twn metanastwn.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh sebetai toys nomoys toy kratoys. Kai epeidh akribws kaneis den qa hqele na fqasoyme se ena shmeio opoy kaqenas, estw kai me mia apergia peinas, na mporei na ekbiazei lyseis nomimopoihshs, oi opoies omws qa einai paranomes, para toys nomoys toy kratoys, emeis epimenoyme oti kamia mazikh nomimopoihsh den prokeitai na ginei. Hdh h kybernhsh, synaisqanomenh kai toys kindynoys poy yparxoyn, oxi mono gia thn ygeia - ayto einai anqrwpistiko zhthma - alla na xaqoyn oi dynatothtes, logw krishs, apo ligotera enshma poy qa mporoysan na exoyn kapoioi, dhladh apo th mh thrhsh aysthrwn proypoqesewn, exei probei se mia elastikopoihsh twn proypoqesewn katebazontas ton ariqmo twn enshmwn. Tetoioy eidoys kinhseis, oi opoies omws synadoyn me thn nomimothta, emeis tis kanoyme giati pragmatika qeloyme na yparxei lysh sto problhma twn metanastwn oi opoioi logw ths krishs den mporoyn na sygkentrwsoyn ola ta enshma. Alla me apergies peinas den mporei na ekbiazetai kamia, eidikoterh h synolikoterh, metaxeirish metanastwn h opoiondhpote allwn politwn. Giati akribws yparxei mia eynomoymenh Politeia, yparxoyn nomoi toy kratoys poy qa prepei na throyntai kai ayto to mhnyma qa prepei na perasei se oloys.

Se ayto to shmeio qa moy epitrecete na pw oti - epeidh blepoyme kai thn Epitroph Allhleggyhs pros aytoys toys metanastes oi opoioi bgainoyn pros ta ejw kai miloyn ej onomatos toys, kanontas apergia, omws, oi metanastes kai oxi oi idioi - qa prepei oloi na synaisqanqoyme tis eyqynes mas. As mhn paizoyme, loipon, oyte me tis zwes metanastwn kai aqwwn anqrwpwn, oyte, kyriws, me th nomimothta, h parabiash ths opoias qa shmaine sthn prokeimenh periptwsh th mazikh nomimopoihsh oxi mono 300 metanastwn alla kai allwn 300 kai allwn 500 kai allwn ekatontadwn xiliadwn poy qa akoloyqhsoyn. Exoyme mia eynomoymenh Politeia, me sygkekrimenoys nomoys, me sygkekrimenes proypoqeseis, me sygkekrimenes antoxes kai fysika ayta qa prepei na ta laboyme ypoch mas. Einai allo to anqrwpistiko stoixeio, to opoio safws kai epideiknyoyme kai allh h thrhsh ths nomimothtas.

TZANETTATOS: Qa hqela na moy peite ti eidoys einai aytes oi apofaseis poy qa prepei na labete meta thn 25h Martioy me oroys eqnikhs eyqynhs gia thn antimetwpish toy dhmosioy xreoys, opws toylaxiston eipe xqes o ypoyrgos eswterikwn G. Ragkoyshs se synenteyjh toy.

PETALWTHS: Apomonwsate kati apo osa eipe o k. Ragkoyshs kai egw den mporw na sas apanthsw. Ayto poy apantw egw kai pisteyw oti ayto ennooyse o k. Ragkoyshs, einai oti apo twra kai oxi meta tis 25 Martioy, epeidh den gnwrizoyme kai poia qa einai h apofash ths E.E. , apo twra opws kai poly prin apo twra, emeis epikaloymaste to eqniko kaqhkon poy prepei na epideijoyn oles oi politikes dynameis. Na synaisqanqoyn, prwta ap ola, poy briskomaste. Na afhsoyn kata meros, kapoioi, kapoioys laikismoys poy den bgazoyn poyqena kai ta eykola logia ta opoia sygxronws einai kai sklhra pros thn pragmatikothta kai na proteinoyn o,ti exoyn, anejarthta apo to ean symfwnoyme h diafwnoyme oi politikes dynameis, etsi wste na mporesoyme na bgaloyme pera ayth th megalh eqnikh ypoqesh poy einai to jeperasma ths krishs, alla kai na proxwrhsoyme tis megales allages poy emeis, san kybernhsh, kanoyme. Pera apo logia, pragmatika kaqenas krinetai kai qa krinetai apo tis prajeis toy kai apo th symmetoxh toy sthn poly megalh ayth eqnikh prospaqeia.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to prwi egine mia katalhch sto KEPYO, opoy oi ergazomenoi, dia twn syndikalistikwn toys ekproswpwn, aneferan oti qeloyn na dhmosieysoyn ta poqen esxes twn forofygadwn kai ta lefta poy bghkan kai osoi ebgalan xrhmata sto ejwteriko kai den exoyn parei thn entolh apo thn kybernhsh. Isxyei kati tetoio;

PETALWTHS: Ej oswn gnwrizw h katalhch sto KEPYO exei aithmata ergasiakoy xarakthra, prolhptika, gia na mhn kopei to epidoma toys. Ayth einai h enhmerwsh poy exw kai fysika den prokyptei kamia eikona opws ayth poy anaferate. Apo ekei kai pera, ean ontws bazoyn kai tetoia zhthmata, qa prepei na antilhfqoyn oloi oti oi ypallhloi prepei na ekteloyn sygkekrimenes politikes entoles kai kapoioi na mhn paroysiazontai pio eyaisqhtoi apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh. Einai h prwth fora poy ellhnikh kybernhsh bgazei onomata forofygadwn kai h prwth fora poy ginontai aytes oi megales diastayrwseis. Kai osoi ergazontai sto KEPYO alla kai stis kata topoys DOY olhs ths Elladas, einai oi prwtoi poy to gnwrizoyn ayto kai qa eprepe pragmatika ayth h energeia ths kybernhshs na dexetai th symparastash twn ergazomenwn. Kai th dexetai. Alla an mperdeyoyme thn prolhptikh mh perikoph twn epidomatwn me tetoioy eidoys zhthmata kai tetoioy eidoys hrwismoys, tote nomizw oti oi ergazomenoi, osoi einai aytoi kai opoioi einai, xanoyn to dikio toys.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela dyo dieykriniseis ep' aytwn poy eipate. An exw shmeiwsei kala, eipate oti an akoloyqhsoyme aparegklita thn thrhsh twn stoxwn, den exoyme na fobomaste tipota kai hqela na rwthsw an ontws akoloyqhsoyme aparegklita thn thrhsh twn stoxwn qa bgoyme stis agores to 2011 h qa xreiastoyme neo daneio to 2012; Kai to deytero: Epeidh milhsate gia ena eqniko programma mesa apo symporeysh, ston prologo sas, an den kanw laqos, milhsate gia politikes paratajeis poy antilambanontai ta pragmata me oroys mhdenismoy. Ara, pws qa symporeyteite mazi toys;

PETALWTHS: Ws pros to deytero, aytes oi politikes dynameis oi opoies antilambanontai ta politika pragmata me oroys mhdenismoy kai plhroys arnhshs, akribws qa prepei na synaisqanqoyn to rolo toys, thn eyqynh toys kai na antilhfqoyn oti oloi qa prepei na synteinoyme, kaqenas apo thn meria toy kai me to rolo toy, sthn poly megalh eqnikh prospaqeia h opoia ginetai ayth th stigmh. Kai yparxoyn polloi tropoi, xwris na afhsei kanenas politikos foreas thn ideologikh toy taytothta kai thn politikh toy topoqethsh, na symballei kai synteinoyme oloi, kaqenas me to rolo toy kai to meridio ths eyqynhs toy.

Ws pros tis agores, emeis ontws prospaqoyme mesa apo thn aparegklith thrhsh twn stoxwn, na bgoyme to syntomotero dynato stis agores kai mesa sto 2011 an ginetai kai fysika mesa sto 2012. Gi' ayto lew oti den yparxei eggyhmenos xronos. Ekeino poy yparxei einai oti, an kanoyme thn prospaqeia thn opoia prepei na kanoyme me oroys eqnikhs eyqynhs, tote pragmatika ayto apotelei kai th monadikh eggyhsh poy mas bgazei apo thn krish mesa se syntomo kai poly orato xroniko diasthma.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Thn Pempth, an den kanw laqos, proetoimazetai mesw toy diadiktyoy mia ekdhlwsh diamartyrias ejw apo to spiti toy k. Shmith, ayth th fora. Yparxei kapoio sygkekrimeno sxedio drashs; Apo thn pleyra ths Astynomias, isws;

PETALWTHS: Sxedio drashs; Den nomizw oti ayto einai to zhthma. Ekeino, omws, poy einai zhthma kai pragmatika twra poy to qetete moy dinete kai thn eykairia na topoqethqw einai oti - ayto akribws eipa kai se prohgoymenh erwthsh - tetoioy eidoys energeies, oi opoies exoyn entonotato stoixeio laikismoy kai isopedwshs politikwn alla kai politikwn eyqynwn, katateinoyn sto na apoprosanatolizetai h koinh gnwmh apo ta pragmatika problhmata. Kai einai poly eykolo na xaideyoyme ta aftia kapoiwn, legontas oti phgainoyme ejw apo ta spitia politikwn, kati omws poy einai akrws laikistiko, to opoio den syneisferei oyte sthn ejomalynsh twn oikonomikwn ths xwras mas, alla antiqetws katateinei ston ekmaylismo ths politikhs zwhs. Gi' ayto anefera oti kai stelexh ths N.D., me sygkekrimenoys roloys, symmetexoyn sthn organwsh tetoioy eidoys energeiwn.

Sas eyxaristw.

Kalo apogeyma. --1427249692-175219924-1299017081=:10379--


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