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Greek Government Press Briefing, 11-06-14

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

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Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 14 Ioynioy 2011

Ariqmos Deltioy: 337671779

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(140611)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 14 Ioynioy 2011

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON

KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

To mesoproqesmo dhmosionomiko plaisio brisketai, ws gnwston, sth diadikasia ths armodias epitrophs ths Boylhs opoy qa syzhthqei. Ena trietes sxedio, to opoio prosdokoyme oti qa xarajei thn poreia ths xwras gia ejodo apo thn krish, opoy, omws, qa perilambanontai kai megales allages oi opoies einai akrws aparaithtes gia na proxwrhsei mprosta h xwra.

H kybernhsh dhlwse apo nwris pws h diamorfwsh twn tropwn me toys opoioys qa petyxoyme toys stoxoys mas, prepei na apotelesei antikeimeno eqnikhs synennohshs. Gi` ayto allwste prosklhqhkan na symmetexoyn s` ayth th diadikasia kai oles oi politikes dynameis.

Epipleon, h kybernhsh yioqethse hdh orismenes ajiologes protaseis ths antipoliteyshs sto mesoproqesmo, poy bohqoyn sto na fqasoyme stoys stoxoys, deixnontas pws to kalesma ayto gia th synennohsh den einai sygkyriako, alla prokeitai pragmatika gia mia eqnikh anagkaiothta, syndedemenh me thn epibiwsh mas ws xwra kai profanws yperbainei tis stenes kommatikes grammes.

Exoyme apodeijei, ws kybernhsh, oti akoyme. Kai eimaste proqymoi na syzhthsoyme - kai to prattoyme oytws h allws - opoiadhpote realistikh protash symbalei sthn taxyterh ylopoihsh twn stoxwn mas, sthn taxyterh efarmogh twn megalwn allagwn, poy oloi symfwnoyme oti xreiazetai o topos gia na paei, epiteloys, mprosta.

Exoyme thn politikh boylhsh. Analambanoyme thn eqnikh eyqynh kai proxwrame na prajoyme o,ti xreiazetai gia na bgoyme apo thn krish. Thn idia aisqhsh eyqynhs ofeiloyme na epideijoyme oloi mas.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

PAPPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na exw to sxolio sas gia th dhlwsh toy k. Mimh Androylakh, o opoios milhse gia anaplhrwth Prwqypoyrgo ton k. Samara.

PETALWTHS: Exw mia pagia arxh na mhn sxoliazw tis omilies twn boyleytwn. H kybernhsh kyberna, ayto einai dedomeno. Apo ekei kai pera yparxoyn roloi. Yparxei o rolos ths kybernhshs, o rolos ths antipoliteyshs, o rolos twn ypoloipwn politikwn dynamewn. Aplws, sth sygkyria poy briskomaste, exoyme pei polles fores oti h eqnikh synennohsh einai eqnikh anagkaiothta. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti milame gia kybernhtikh synergasia h gia mia anameijh kai sygxysh twn rolwn, h opoia fysika den bohqaei kanenan.

PAPPA: Na epimeinw ligo. Hqela ena deytero sxolio: Pws sxoliazete ta ejwdika poy stelnoyn se diaforoys nomoys ths xwras pros toys boyleytes;

PETALWTHS: H politikh einai mia diadikasia poy einai poly pio panw apo typikothtes h kapoies nomikes - ypotiqetai - energeies. Aytoi oi boyleytes, ayths ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy PA.SO.K., alla kai toy Koinoboylioy genikotera -as mhn jexname oti einai boyleytes sthn pio dyskolh kai krisimh periodo toy Ellhnikoy Koinoboylioy apo to 1974 kai meta- den xreiazontai kanena ejwdiko. Oyte nomizw oti kapoios boyleyths mporei na ekbiastei ws pros th syneidhsh toy apo opoiadhpote piesh, ws pros to na prajei to eqniko toy kaqhkon kai malista, otan akoloyqeitai mia diadikasia, toy ejwdikoy, h opoia einai prwtofanhs, omws pisteyw oti den afora kanenan mas. Yparxei h syneidhsh toy boyleyth, yparxei h skech, h stoixeiwdhs skech, h opoia fysika mas odhgei sto megalo diakybeyma, to na mporesoyme ws xwra na bgoyme mprosta. Kaqenas epilegei toys tropoys toy, epilegei tis symperifores toy. Alla, to aisqhma ths eyqynhs poy deixnei o kaqe boyleyths den xreiazetai, oyte mporei na parakinhqei apo kanena ejwdiko.

PAPPA: Mia trith erwthsh, an moy epitrepete: Akoyw apo polla stelexh - kai eseis to exete pei- oti oi treis epomenes ebdomades, mexri thn chfish toy mesoproqesmoy kai to na kleidwsei h dosh toy daneioy, einai para poly krisimes. S` aytes tis ebdomades, loipon, blepoyme oi aganaktismenoi kai me ta ejwdika, an qelete, na ojynoyn thn antidrash toys. Qa hqela na rwthsw, fobatai h kybernhsh oti yparxei kentro apo pisw, to opoio ergazetai gia thn anatroph ths;

PETALWTHS: Emeis ayto poy kanoyme, einai na prospaqoyme na eimaste synepeis sto megalo kaqhkon, sto opoio exoyme taxqei apo ton ellhniko lao: Na swsoyme th xwra. Kai na swsoyme th xwra, oyte ws profhtes, oyte ws messies. Yparxoyn sygkekrimena zhthmata ta opoia prepei na epilysoyme, opws einai h krish xreoys, h krish elleimmatos. Kai fysika, ayta den mporoyn na ginoyn me aples energeies h na ginoyn ypo thn piesh kapoiwn oi opoioi qewroyn oti den qa eprepe na prattoyme me ayto ton tropo. Thn anhsyxia poy exoyme emeis, den thn exei epideijei kanenas mexri twra. Thn agwnia poy exoyn oles oi politikes dynameis pisteyw, anejarthta apo to ti kanei h kaqemia, den mporei kaneis na thn amfisbhthsei. Kai fysika, h kaqe kybernhsh, alla kai oles oi politikes dynameis den mporei na ephreazontai apo sygkyriaka fainomena. Yparxei enas oloklhros laos, ston opoio eimaste ypologoi. Thn eyqynh poy exoyme apenanti ston ellhniko lao kai th skeptomaste kai thn analogizomaste, alla kai prospaqoyme na eimaste antajioi ayths ths eyqynhs.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, na gyrisw sto qema ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy kybernwntos kommatos kai na xrhsimopoihsw lejeis poy kai shmera eipate, alla kai tis prohgoymenes hmeres: Milhsate gia ``istorikh eyqynh twn boyleytwn'', gia ``prajeis syneidhshs'', ``to ofeiloyn logw ths krisimothtas ths katastashs na sthrijoyn thn kybernhsh kai to mesoproqesmo programma''. Kai qelw mia eyqeia apanthsh, kyrie Ekproswpe. Gia opoion boyleyth den sthrijei to mesoproqesmo, yparxei qesh sthn K.O.; Apo th stigmh poy einai istorikh eyqynh, einai prajh syneidhshs, einai krisimh stigmh, gia opoion den sthrijei to mesoproqesmo exei qesh sthn K.O. toy PA.SO.K. meta;

PETALWTHS: Qa htan teleiws akomco, gia mena, otan briskomaste sthn ejelijh mias diadikasias gia to mesoproqesmo, otan ayrio qa syzhthqei sthn epitroph, na anaferomai se symperifores boyleytwn h kai se antidraseis poy qa exei h kybernhsh. Ekeino to opoio exw na pw kai to opoio pisteyoyme kai ws kybernhsh, fysika, einai - opws eipate - oti pragmatika einai istorikh eyqynh olwn mas na antapokriqoyme, kaqenas sthn eyqynh toy. Ejartatai, bebaia, pws thn katanoei o kaqenas. Ekeino to opoio xreiazetai, omws, na prajoyme oloi - kai to kanei prwta ap` ola h kybernhsh - einai na yparxei nhfaliothta, na yparxei cyxraimia, na yparxei synesh kai fysika na analogistoyme ti eyqynes exoyme, apenanti kai stis paroyses, alla kai stis epomenes genies kai sta paidia mas. To na afhsoyme na xreokophsei h xwra, qa htan o,ti pio akatalogisto qa mporoysame na kanoyme shmera, ws kybernhsh kai ws kybernwn komma. Apo ekei kai pera, epanalambanw oti mesa se mia diadikasia syzhthshs toy mesoproqesmoy , poy htan apo tis pio anoixtes diadikasies - kai exei akomh kai alles faseis - pragmatika mporesan na ekfrastoyn oloi oi boyleytes kai yparxei akomh xroniko periqwrio mesa stis diadikasies, oxi mono oi boyleytes toy kommatos mas, alla kai oles oi politikes dynameis.

Epanalambanw, to mono poy mporoyme na poyme se ayth th fash, einai oti apaiteitai cyxraimia, synesh kai nhfaliothta, etsi wste blepontas, kaqenas apo thn pleyra toy, to stoixeiwdes koino kalo, na to prajoyme kiolas.

MIXAHL: Ena megalo kommati ths koinwnikhs diamartyrias, kyrie Ekproswpe, afora tis forologikes epiloges poy perilambanei to mesoproqesmo programma. Qewroyntai adikes koinwnika, apo polloys. Exete thn proqesh na tis allajete mexri thn chfish;

PETALWTHS: To exoyme pei polles fores oti exoyme sygkekrimenes stoxeyseis. Yparxoyn sygkekrimenoi stoxoi, toys opoioys den qetoyme emeis, alla toys qetei h idia h anagkh. Stoxos mas einai na mporesoyme na jeperasoyme thn krish xreoys. Na mporesoyme na meiwsoyme to xreos, to opoio pragmatika exei pollaplasiastei ta teleytaia pente-eji xronia, kai den qa prepei ayto na to jexname. Fysika, den exoyme dikaiwma, alla oyte kai thn epilogh na afhsoyme ayto to xreos na paramenei kai na bainei ayjanomeno anti na meiwnetai. Ara, exoyme sygkekrimeno stoxo poy einai h meiwsh toy xreoys, h meiwsh toy elleimmatos. Oses protaseis yparxoyn sto plaisio aytoy toy stoxoy, emeis kai tis syzhtame kai tis akoyme fysika. Kai oses einai efiktes kai symbates me to stoxo tis prosetairizomaste kai tis enswmatwnoyme kiolas. Oloi exoyme tis anhsyxies mas gia ta forologika. Gnwrizoyme para poly kala oloi mas, oti edw kai polles dekaeties to forologiko mas systhma oyte dikaio htan, alla oyte kai eixe anaptyjei gia diaforoys logoys -kai kyriws gia pelateiakoys logoys, edika me thn kybernhsh ths N.D.- toys foroeispraktikoys kai foroelegktikoys mhxanismoys. Shmera, yparxei amesh anagkaiothta na yparxoyn forologika esoda. Prospaqoyme na epibarynoyme oso to dynaton ligotero tis xamhles kai mesaies tajeis. Gi` ayto akribws otan kanoyme epiloges, kanoyme epiloges gia syntajeis oi opoies einai panw apo ena sygkekrimeno poso kai den milame gia xamhles kai gia mesaies syntajeis, dhladh prospaqoyme na broyme isodynama gia th meiwsh toy aforologhtoy. Ayjhsame - kai einai mia protash poy qa yparxei sto mesoproqesmo - ta tekmhria diabiwshs, etsi wste pragmatika na yparxei ena krithrio koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs, mesa apo aytes tis forologikes ryqmiseis tis opoies fernoyme. Einai, omws, safestato oti mexri na chfistei sthn Olomeleia ths Boylhs, qa mporoyn isodynames protaseis, alla me sygkekrimeno stoxo - na mh bgainoyn ejw apo toys stoxoys - na yioqethqoyn, efoson fysika einai tekmhriwmenes kai efoson den mas phgainoyn pisw.

PAPPA: Ep` aytoy. Dhladh, to shmerino systhma poy proteinete qa to xarakthrizate dikaio;

PETALWTHS: Qa htan poly megalh koybenta kai fysika, kaneis den eipe kati tetoio. Alla prospaqoyme na to kanoyme oso to dynaton dikaiotero. To krithrio ths koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs to bazoyme, opoy mporoyme. Kai fysika, ennoeitai oti den einai dikaio. Giati den qa mporoyse na xarakthristei dikaio ena forologiko systhma, to opoio afhnei na yparxei megalh forodiafygh, alla prospaqoyme na thn periorisoyme oso mporoyme. Diaqetoyme sygkekrimena ergaleia, ta opoia, fysika, den mas ikanopoioyn. Diaqetoyme enan kratiko mhxanismo, o opoios einai gnwsto toses dekaeties, pws exei domhqei kai pws exei leitoyrghsei kai afora tis parembaseis poy kanoyme. Mesa se 18-19 mhnes den htan dynaton na allajei aytos o kratikos mhxanismos. Epanaferame, jana, foroelegktikoys kai foroeispraktikoys mhxanismoys, poy dystyxws h kybernhsh ths N.D., eixe katarghsei teleiws. Prospaqoyme na baloyme enan ajona koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs, kata to dynatotero, poy fysika, ek twn pragmatwn, exei kai kapoia oria.

MPEKA: O syntagmatologos k. Benizelos se mia synenteyjh poy edwse sto ``Prwto Qema'' eipe oti gia th nomimopoihsh toy mesoproqesmoy apaitoyntai ta 3/5 ths Boylhs, enw o Prwqypoyrgos eipe oti arkei aplh pleiochfia. Ayto giati to kanei; Giati fobatai mhpws mia emplokh sth Boylh mporei na prokalesei ekloges; H den ton endiaferei an mia epomenh kybernhsh qesei zhthma antisyntagmatikothtas ths diadikasias me tis opoies poinikes kai politikes synepeies qa exoyn oi ypoyrgoi oi opoioi qa ypogracoyn tis ekxwrhseis twn 50 dis h kapoioys nomoys poy qa isopedwsoyn thn Ellada kai toys Ellhnes; Ti exete na peite gi` ayto;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei sygkekrimenh diadikasia h opoia problepetai apo ton kanonismo ths Boylhs gia to pws chfizetai ena mesoproqesmo strathgiko sxedio, to opoio eisagetai me th diadikasia toy Proypologismoy. Kai epanalambanw, oti efoson chfistei to mesoproqesmo, qa akoloyqhsoyn oi efarmostikoi nomoi, oi opoioi qa einai arketoi. Ekei, pragmatika, kaqe boyleyths mporei na diaforopoihqei, asxeta an epi ths arxhs exei chfisei to mesoproqesmo. Kai to lew ayto, giati akribws h antipoliteysh mas kathgorei oti fernoyme me ena arqro to mesoproqesmo. Yparxoyn kai oi koinoboyleytikes diadikasies, tis opoies den qa allajoyme gia na kanoyme to xatiri ths antipoliteyshs. Epanalambanw oti yparxei h dynatothta h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh kai thn ypeyqynothta ths na deijei, epiteloys gia mia fora, alla kai na diaforopoihqei ekei poy pisteyei oti yparxoyn alles forologikes lyseis h alles lyseis stis apokratikopoihseis, me toys efarmostikoys nomoys oi opoioi qa erqoyn. Emeis den kanoyme tipote poy na mhn einai nomimo, prokeimenoy na yparxoyn politikoi sysxetismoi, toys opoioys isws kapoioi sthn antipoliteysh toys skeftontai diaforetika apo opws yparxoyn shmera. Ennoeitai oti den qa kanoyme kamia ekptwsh sth nomimothta kai ayth einai h qesh ths kybernhshs.

MPEKA: Ayrio qa ginei mia apo tis megalyteres sygkentrwseis poy exoyn ginei pote sth xwra mas. Kai malista, qa fqasei mexri kai sth symbolikh perikyklwsh ths Boylhs. Kai ap` o,ti fainetai den qa einai h monadikh, qa akoloyqhsoyn ki alles. Otan htan o Prwqypoyrgos ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh, eixe th dynatothta na katebei apo th Boylh kai na milhsei me toys diadhlwtes, toys syntajioyxoys, toys agrotes, toys aganaktismenoys toy OLP. Ayrio qa kanei to idio akribws; Qa katebei na milhsei me toys aganaktismenoys;

PETALWTHS: Den jerw an qa to kanei o k. Samaras poy einai arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. To eipame kai to janaleme: Thn ypeyqynothta poy deixnei ayth h kybernhsh apenanti sth xwra, makari na thn edeixnan polles alles kybernhseis sto parelqon. Emeis synomiloyme me ton ellhniko lao. Thn agwnia kai tis antidraseis toy ellhnikoy laoy apenanti se ayth thn katastash poy zoyme, tis gnwrizoyme. Alla, pisteyoyme oti kai o ellhnikos laos gnwrizei ti akribws diakybeyetai me olo ayto poy ginetai. Qa htan para poly eykolo na egkataleicoyme thn ejoysia, opws ekane o k. Karamanlhs h na poyme elate na bgalete eseis ta kastana apo th fwtia, opws epishs ekane o k. Karamanlhs, h kybernhsh ths N.D. Giati den einai allo o Karamanlhs, allo o Samaras kai allo h N.D. Einai to komma ths N.D. to opoio pragmatika qa prepei na dwsei kai ejetaseis gia to an exei allajei h oxi, kati poy dystyxws den to blepoyme na ginetai, eidika to teleytaio diasthma me th symperifora ths. Kaqenas analambanei tis eyqynes toy. Emeis exoyme sygkekrimenh eyqynh, exoyme sygkekrimenh entolh, poy panw ap` ola, einai patriwtikh entolh: Na mhn ptwxeysei h xwra. Kai epiteloys, as mas poyn aytoi poy diafwnoyn me to mesoproqesmo, ti allo qa mporoysame na kanoyme gia na mhn ptwxeysoyme; Kai as ejhghsoyn epiteloys ston ellhniko lao, koitwntas ton sta matia, oti mia ptwxeysh shmainei paysh plhrwmwn, shmainei misqoys 100 kai 200 eyrw, shmainei oti den yparxoyn xrhmata gia sxoleia kai nosokomeia. E, opoios qelei pragmatika na ferei th xwra se ayth thn katastash, as bgei eyqarsws na mas to pei. Alla na to pei, na mhn krybetai.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Na elqw ligo sto qema twn boyleytwn toy PASOK, oi opoioi lene oti mporei na mhn to chfisoyn. Exete skeftei tropoys antidrashs; Gia paradeigma, an exete na proteinete stoys boyleytes oi opoioi skeftontai na mhn to chfisoyn na paradwsoyn apo twra tis edres. Yparxei tetoia skech;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei tetoio qema. Den yparxei tetoia syzhthsh sthn kybernhsh. Emeis, ayto poy exoyme na kanoyme einai na syzhtame me toys boyleytes. Antilambanomaste to poso dyskolo einai na eklegesai apo ton ellhniko lao, gia na askhseis ena programma, to opoio synadei me thn ideologia kai me tis ajies toy kommatos soy, alla kai tis proswpikes soy kai na anagkazesai san boyleyths na diaxeiristeis mia krish sthn opoia h kybernhsh ths N.D. me enan pragmatika egklhmatiko tropo mas ebale aqwrakistoys. Ara, loipon, exoyme na kanoyme me dilhmmata poy den einai ekbiastika. Einai dilhmmata ypeyqynothtas kai oysias. Kai ayta ta dilhmmata, pisteyoyme oti oi boyleytes, mesa apo oles tis koinoboyleytikes diadikasies, alla kai th dyskolh epafh kai ejhghsh pros ton ellhniko lao -giati yparxoyn antikeimenikes dyskolies na ejhghqei h katastash- antilambanontai ton rolo toys. To apodeiknyoyn edw kai 19 mhnes kai pisteyoyme oti kati antistoixo qa symbei kai twra. H Koinoboyleytikh Omada toy PASOK exei deijei oti einai mia ypeyqynh Koinoboyleytikh Omada. Exoyme apodeijei oti den droyme me enan laikistiko tropo, oti den metaqetoyme tis eyqynes se kapoioys alloys prokeimenoy na lysoyn ta problhmata meta apo emas. Oti emeis epwmizomaste to problhma toy na jeperasoyme thn krish kai fysika, to na mhn xreokophsoyme einai ena qema poy afora ayth thn kybernhsh, ayto to komma.

MARAQIAS: Hqela na rwthsw an pisteyete oti h Koinoboyleytikh Omada qa chfisei to mesoproqesmo, giati ta mhnymata den fainetai na einai pros ayth thn kateyqynsh, toylaxiston apo kapoioys boyleytes. Hdh exoyme to prwto kroysma, ton k. Aqanasiadh.

PETALWTHS: Emeis kanoyme ayto poy prepei na kanoyme. Eipame oti yparxei mia sygkekrimenh epilogh: Na mhn afhsoyme th xwra na xreokophsei. Ean yparxoyn alles lyseis me toys sygkekrimenoys aparegklitoys stoxoys syzhtame otidhpote isodynamo metro h apofash yparxei. Makari na exoyme kai na eixame polles epiloges gia na mporoyme na epilejoyme thn pleon anwdynh kai thn pleon koinwnika dikaih. Ayto mporoyme na kanoyme ws kybernhsh. Ayto poy prepei na kanoyme, pisteyoyme oti to kanoyme kai eimaste sigoyroi oti kai oi boyleytes to katanooyn. Oytws h allws to exoyn deijei.

GARGALAKOS: Shmera eida toylaxiston dyo prwtoselida dhmosieymata na kanoyn logo gia dramatikh meiwsh twn misqwn twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. Malista to ena eixe kai ariqmo, elege meiwsh twn apodoxwn toys kata 40%. Pws to blepete ayto; Qa ftasete se tetoies akraies kinhseis;

PETALWTHS: Qa prepei na mhn afhnoyme na planwntai tetoioy eidoys aneyqynes fhmes. Ayto poy mporoyme emeis na diabebaiwsoyme einai oti den yparxei kanenas tetoios sxediasmos sthn kybernhsh. Den yparxei kanenas sxediasmos na perikopei kata ena megalo pososto -opws grafetai- o misqos twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn kai malista ayta na grafontai me bash to eniaio misqologio. Ayto poy emeis exoyme na poyme kai einai safes, einai oti to eniaio misqologio to opoio qa prowqhsoyme, ws monadiko stoxo exei na arei tis adikies poy yparxoyn metajy twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. Adikies oi opoies mas exoyn odhghsei na exoyme misqoys oxi dyo kai triwn taxythtwn, alla toswn taxythtwn, oses peripoy einai kai oi yphresies, oi foreis kai oi organismoi toy dhmosioy. Kati tetoio den mporei pleon na ginetai anekto. Qa prepei na yparjei mia ejomoiwsh twn ypallhlwn poy yphretoyn sto dhmosio, se oles tis yphresies, etsi wste na arqoyn oi adikies, ayto kai mono einai poly dikaio. Qa feroyme to neo misqologio kai qa diapistwsete oti den qa yparjoyn tetoies perikopes poy na prokaleitai ayth h anhsyxia stoys dhmosioys ypallhloys.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den jerw ean gnwrizete mia shmerinh dhlwsh toy k. 'Oli Ren, sthn opoia anaferei oti o politikos xronos sta kommata ths Elladas teleiwnei kai oti den einai ypoxrewmenh h E.E. na deijei th symparastash ths, an den dei se ameso xrono malista mia minimoym synainesh. Ayto einai to nohma ths dhlwshs toy k. 'Oli Ren kai qelw to diko sas sxolio. Sas eyxaristw.

PETALWTHS: Gia na eimaste jekaqaroi -giati prepei prwta ap' ola na eimaste jekaqaroi apenanti ston ellhniko lao- ayth thn terastia prospaqeia poy kanoyme gia na bgaloyme th xwra apo thn krish, qa eprepe na thn epwmizontai oles oi politikes dynameis. Einai alhqeia oti yparxei kybernhsh me isxyrh koinoboyleytikh pleiochfia, alla to qema den einai mono na chfistei ena mesoproqesmo kai teleiwsame. Einai diadikasies poy xreiazontai megalyterh barythta. Einai diadikasies poy einai anagkh na bgainoyn pros ta ejw ws ena eniaio mhnyma twn politikwn dynamewn, oxi mono sto ejwteriko, alla kai pros toys Ellhnes polites, toys opoioys, pragmati, kaloyme na epwmisqoyn polla ap' ayta ta barh, poy mas fortwsan kyriws oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis. Kata synepeia, krinomaste oloi. An kati tetoio legetai apo to ejwteriko, ayto den apotelei ekbiasmo. Kai otan yparxei antidrash se tetoies dhlwseis, opws prospaqei na kanei h N.D., na prajei to teleytaio diasthma, den mporei fysika ayto na qewrhqei ``antistash'' kai ``hrwismos''. O pragmatikos hrwismos fainetai otan jepername toys mikrokommatismoys mas, otan antilambanomaste -kai to deixnoyme oti to antilambanomaste- to megalo xreos kai thn poly megalh eyqynh poy exoyme pros th xwra kai malista apo politikes dynameis oi opoies einai ypeyqynes, se poly megalo meros, ths katastashs poy zoyme shmera sth xwra.

Den einai tyxaio oti h periodeia toy k. Samara sthn Eyrwph stefqhke apo mia poly megalh apotyxia, oxi mono ws pros to komma ths N.D., alla eixe kai ta xarakthristika mias eqnikhs apotyxias. Otan to megalytero komma ths antipoliteyshs, h idia h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh phgainei sto ejwteriko, synantatai me toys hgetes ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai exoyme mono arnhtikes anafores apo thn Enwsh kai malista apo hgetes poy hgoyntai kommatwn ths idias ideologias me aythn toy k. Samara, otan to sxedio ths N.D. xarakthrizetai apo toys Eyrwpaioys hgetes ws ``mh realistiko'' -ayth einai akribws h lejh poy xrhsimopoihqhke- kai en pollois ``anefarmosto'', dioti den bgazei th xwra apo thn krish, tote pragmatika qa prepei oles oi politikes dynameis na analogistoyn ti eyqynh feroyn apenanti stoys polites, s' aytoys toys polites poy tis chfisan h den tis chfisan, alla en pash periptwsei eimaste ypologoi, olos o politikos kosmos syllhbdhn. Ekei akribws egkeitai kai h megalh eyqynh poy exoyme. Kai fysika, o xronos poy exoyme sth diaqesh mas den einai polys kai ayto den xreiazetai na mas to pei kapoios jenos. To gnwrizoyme para poly kala. Exoyme sygkekrimenes anagkes kai xrhmatodotikes ws xwra, alla kai o xronos poy exoyme na jeperasoyme thn krish xreoys, alla kai na kanoyme tis megales allages poy xreiazontai, safws kai einai periorismenos, giati exei na kanei me thn epibiwsh ths idias ths xwras. Kai ayto qa prepei oloi mas na to analogistoyme.

SIDERHS: Apla dhmioyrgeitai h aisqhsh oti lete synexeia megales koybentes, xwris na prattete analogws. Exete 19 mhnes sthn ejoysia. Pote perimenete na tis kanete tis megales allages;

PETALWTHS: Ena megalo meros to exoyme hdh prajei kai to exoyme pei para polles fores.

SIDERHS: Me ta apotelesmata poy blepoyme;

PETALWTHS: Me ta apotelesmata poy exoyme. Giati oi pente monades meiwshs toy elleimmatos einai ena apotelesma, to opoio pragmatika qa to zhleyan polles eyrwpaikes xwres poy den to eprajan pote. 'Exoyme allages ston kratiko mhxanismo. Ferame ton ``Kallikrath'', o opoios pragmatika qespizei epanastatikes allages. Alla, fysika, mesa se 19 mhnes, den qa mporoyse na allajei oyte to kratos, oyte na ginoyn oi poly megales allages, oi opoies xreiazontai kai megales eqnikes synaineseis gia na pragmatopoihqoyn. Mporesame kai kaname sygxwneyseis forewn se epoxes oi opoies einai para poly dyskoles, opoy ta oikonomika ths xwras einai gnwsta kai ara den epitrepoyn megales diarqrwtikes allages. Twra jekiname tis apokratikopoihseis. Exoyme hdh ferei eis peras mia seira apo zhthmata, ta opoia pote den ta eixe anoijei h ellhnikh politikh kai oikonomikh zwh, opws to anoigma twn kleistwn epaggelmatwn, to opoio, bebaia, kaloymaste na efarmosoyme kai sthn prajh. Aytes einai megales allages. Alla gia na eydokimhsoyn kiolas, xreiazetai akribws oi politikes dynameis na bohqhsoyn, etsi wste na ginoyn mia wra nwritera. Kai ayto to ``nwritera'' exei th megalh ajia poy qeloyme na exei.

SIDERHS: Apla na shmeiwsw oti h rhtoreia sas yperbainei thn praktikh sas. Giati oi allages poy lete sta epaggelmata, oloi kathggeilan oti einai mises, den anoijan ta kleista epaggelmata.

PETALWTHS: Toys nomoys toys chfisame kai prospaqoyme na toys efarmosoyme.

SIDERHS: Sthn Koinoboyleytikh sas Omada, boyleytes sas eipan oti o ``Kallikraths'' dielyse thn dhmosia dioikhsh.

PETALWTHS: An twra stekomaste sto ti leei o kaqenas kai apantame genikws ti eipe o enas kai ti eipe o allos, xanoyme to nohma ths syzhthshs. Egw sas eipa oti o ``Kallikraths'' einai mia poly megalh epanastash, einai mia poly megalh tomh kai sthn Aytodioikhsh kai sto epiteliko kratos kai einai epomeno oti xreiazetai xronos gia na ferei ta apotelesmata toy.

PAPPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Pws qelete na peisete toys polites oti ta metra poy erxontai einai anagkaia, otan den exoyn peisqei oi boyleytes toy PASOK; Dhladh, akoyga xqes ton k. Qanash Papagewrgioy sto MEGA na leei oti to xreos den einai biwsimo.

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw oti oi boyleytes exoyn thn agwnia toys, ekfrazoyn tis amfibolies toys, tis amfisbhthseis toys kai ayto prepei na kanoyn. Omws, apo ekei kai pera, h kybernhsh exei sygkekrimena apotelesmata, exei sygkekrimenh stoxeysh, exei sygkekrimenes protaseis, oi opoies kaloyntai na ginoyn kai apofaseis sto Koinoboylio. Epanalambanw gia allh mia fora: to na exoyn mia diaforopoihsh oi boyleytes se epimeroys zhthmata, einai kai logiko kai qemito kai deixnei akribws th dynamikh ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas. Alla mprosta sto eqniko kaqhkon na proxwrhsei h xwra sto na swqei, nomizw oti o kaqenas analambanei kai tis eyqynes toy. Kai oi boyleytes toy PASOK exoyn apodeijei oti stis pleon dyskoles epoxes, tis eyqynes toys ontws tis analambanoyn.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, dyo erwthseis. H prwth: Peran toy k. Aqanasiadh, o opoios eipe shmera eyqarsws oti den qa chfisei to mesoproqesmo kai einai etoimos na analabei thn eyqynh toy gi' ayto, pragma poy shmainei oti profanws kati jerei oti qa akoloyqhsei ths kinhshs toy ayths, ef' oson ginei prajh, yparxoyn kai alloi boyleytes poy afhnoyn to endexomeno anoixto, zhtwntas kati poy kata thn tapeinh moy apoch einai aytonohto, kapoia pragmata na syzhthqoyn jexwrista kai oxi se paketo. Epi ths oysias, loipon, eiste diateqeimenoi na syzhthsete gia tis apokratikopoihseis, eidikotera gia kaqe mia ap' aytes jexwrista, opws zhtoyn kai oi ypoyrgoi ths kybernhshs sas;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw oti to mesoproqesmo exei diaforetiko tropo chfishs kai qa akoloyqhsoyn efarmostikoi nomoi kai gia th forologia kai gia tis apokratikopoihseis. Exoyme na kanoyme ektenestath syzhthsh, tosh osh den egine pote. Hdh jekinhsame na thn kanoyme kai fysika otan einai na elqoyn pros chfish sygkekrimenes ptyxes aytoy toy mesoproqesmoy, qa ginetai h syzhthsh ektenestath, analytikh kai kaqe fora qa akoloyqoyntai oi katallhles kai analoges diadikasies.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Dhladh kaleite ton k. Aqanasiadh na yperchfisei epi ths arxhs kai na ferei tis diafwnies toy ston efarmostiko nomo.

PETALWTHS: Egw syzhtw genikws, den syzhtw mono gia ton k. Aqanasiadh. Epanalambanw poia einai h diadikasia kai poia einai h boylhsh, h apofash ths kybernhshs, ws pros th diadikasia kai malista se xrono anypopto sthn arxh, xwris na deixnei oti piezomaste h oti ekbiazomaste h oti kanoyme kinhseis, prokeimenoy na ejeymenisoyme kapoioys boyleytes. Htan apofash apo thn arxh. Mia apofash poy exei na kanei me th nomimothta ths diadikasias, opws kai apofash mas, thn opoia ejantloyme oso mporoyme kata to dynaton, ths ektenesterhs syzhthshs, etsi wste oloi na pairnoyme thn eyqynh twn apofasewn mas.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kai mia akomh erwthsh, epeidh eipate oti o stoxos einai h meiwsh toy xreoys. Symfwna me ta epishma stoixeia toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn, dhladh ta epishma stoixeia toy kratoys, sto telos aytoy toy mesoproqesmoy, akomh kai an exei ylopoihqei sto akeraio, to xreos qa einai poly ychlotero. Mhpws telika o xronos poy den eparkei gia tis dikes mas allages, dinetai stoys Eyrwpaioys, wste na amblynoyn kapws tis parenergeies mias piqanhs xreokopias, alla oxi twra, se dyo-tria xronia;

PETALWTHS: Den isxyei kati tetoio. Sto mesoproqesmo yparxei problech gia thn ejelijh kai toy xreoys kai toy elleimmatos, alla kyriws ths anaptyjhs poy qa erqei mesa apo tis stoxeyseis toy mesoproqesmoy. Mia anaptyjh h opoia qa symbalei energa kai sth meiwsh toy xreoys kai sth meiwsh toy elleimmatos, kaqws kai sth meiwsh ths yfeshs. Kai pame gia anaptyjh qetikh, opws einai programmatismeno. Fysika kai sth meiwsh ths anergias, giati h yfesh exei amesh sxesh kai me thn anergia. Ta megeqh ta opoia yparxoyn qa einai pragmatika qetika gia ton ellhniko lao, ef' oson bebaia exoyme ena mesoproqesmo to opoio qa efarmozetai opws prepei na efarmostei.

Sas eyxaristw.

Kalo apogeyma. --1427249692-824696612-1308161811=:15111--


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